Monday, May 21, 2018

Guest Post: Wikipedia vs. Bill Cosby

This post originally began as a post over at the Wikipedia Sucks! messageboard.


The Bill Cosby case: Wikipedia vs. BBC

by CrowsNest 
 
So, I just got through watching a BBC documentary on the Cosby case, aired just before his guilty verdict.

Link to a YouTube copy of Bill Cosby: Fall of an American Icon

As ever, it's a perfect opportunity to demonstrate the stark differences between quality information dissemination from a professional outlet, and the sort of garbage Wikipedia serves up, even in massively high profile and controversial cases (which are exactly the sort of thing some people are desperately trying to tell us these days are where the Wikipedia sauce does its finest work). I do this sort of comparison all the time, but the findings are always the same.

For brevity, I'll simply be examining the introduction of the sexual assault case spin-off article, as I think most people would agree that is what most readers of Wikipedia would read when looking for an adequate not too long but not too short run down of the whole thing. Also because it should be the easiest thing for the Wikipediots to get right, since it doesn't need to stray off the core topic, and they are only supposed to be summarising detailed information that should already be in the article body.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =839558970

First thing that immediately jumped out, was how it totally fails to give a coherent chronology. Specifically, it fails to even mention Constand before Buress, even though the former was the first instance of Cosby facing no criminal investigation despite a very public accusation, which ultimately led directly to the civil suit which led eventually, via Buress etc, to conviction. It actually just drops the mention of Constand in there as a call back from 2015, as if you're already supposed to know who she is.

It also totally fails to acknowledge the media's complete failure to run with Huber's piece, let alone attempt to explain why. Which is easily done when he isn't acknowledged at all in the introduction. That is harsh, given he was the first journalist to look at the Constand investigation, the civil settlement and all the other women who came forward at the time because of it, in the round and think, y'know, this is fucked up, and needs to be written about. That dearth of media attention until a decade later, is a big part of this scandal, the bit which makes it unthinkable if it happened in the present day, and you would know that if the introduction also properly explained Cosby's continuing high profile and adulation in the ensuing decade.

On certain matters, it totally obscures or just plain gets wrong, important details. It doesn't explain why there was a mistrial, it doesn't explain Buress made a direct accusation of serial rape on stage, nor does it identify Buzzfeed as the outlet which sent that story viral (nor even credit the journalist McQuade, whose quick thinking meant we even had a story backed by a recording of that routine). In fact, Christ, this isn't even properly detailed in the main article.

Indeed, given media fear, laxity or whatever, is a big piece of this whole scandal, making it clear that both the crucial pieces by Huber and later McQuade were published in Philadelphia magazine, potentially opening it up to a huge backlash/lawsuit had Cosby done to them what he did to his accusers, you'd think the Wikipediots could have stretched to giving it some credit, above the fold. Not only do they not do that, they don't even notice when someone, perhaps quite innocently, then again perhaps not, inserts the line about what "Adweek reporter Jason Lynch" thinks into the introduction, when he isn't mentioned in the main article at all.

Talking of self-promotion, wierdly, Gloria Allred's name is dropped in there as if she really is just trying to promote herself, whereas the BBC made it quite clear she played a crucial role in these women's fight for justice. While Wikipedia merely states Cosby denied it all, the BBC makes clear that even after Buress, a few short weeks after, Cosby was still trying to use his stature to persuade the media not to even acknowledge this was now part of his story. On the same theme, the BBC of course covered the issue of those who defended Cosby and how/why. And whether a remarkable coincidence or a case of one leading the other, both the BBC and Wikipedia devote significant time to how Goldberg and Phillips evolved their positions. On Wikipedia however, none of this is seen as significant enough for inclusion in the introduction. The introduction doesn't even explain why his deposition was unsealed, which gives important context regarding Cosby's public persona and his eventual downfall in the court of public opinion, well before the eventual trial and conviction which completed it.

Overall, the conclusion is always the same. If you're looking for a good overview of a topic, your time is better spent watching an hour long documentary from the BBC, as crazy as that sounds. Because if you spent any less time than that critically thinking about and indeed fact checking the Wikipedia introduction, you're gonna come away from it being misinformed at best, misled at worst. It is choppy to the point of incoherent, offering no real value beyond what you could manage to piece together yourself in a short session on Google reading news reports. And so really, even if it takes only five minutes to read the Wikipedia introduction, and you come away from that assuming everything you just read was a complete lie and so must be double-checked before you start repeating it yourself in conversation (which, if you don't know, is the legal position of the WMF), who is stupid enough to want to expose their brain to that torture on a regular basis? I do it for the cause. I fear my brain will eventually dissolve into mush because of it.

Google gives millions of dollars to Wikipedia. Think about that, next time you're considering which search engine to make your default, or which driverless car to use to speed you to your inevitable fiery death.

                                  How the mighty have fallen (Strelnikov's favorite Cosby routine.)

Thursday, April 26, 2018

The Internet Relay Chat logs of en. Wikipedia, part 2

Having covered the first weekend in June 2009, we move on into the week:

Tuesday, June 10.

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 09:56:17 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[09:56] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[09:56] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[09:56] * Set by MZMcBride on Tue Jun 10 02:00:38
[09:56] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[09:58] * lulz is now known as Cream
[09:59] * JamieS93 (n=JamieS93@adsl-12-99-80.gsp.bellsouth.net) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]" )
[09:59] * Thx (n=usarn@nttkyo716146.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp) has joined #wikipedia
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[10:06] * nniR is now known as Rinn
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[10:34] * Rinn (n=invalide@h248.167.97.216.ip.alltel.net) Quit ("Why don't we just kill them all and take it?" )
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[10:37] Clones detected from 213.171.187.81.in-addr.arpa: 8 Edward_teach karoshi
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[10:43] * Qst_away is now known as Qst
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Session Close: Tue Jun 10 11:01:52 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 11:01:52 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[11:01] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 11:01:53 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 13:55:55 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[13:55] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[13:55] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[13:55] * Set by MZMcBride on Tue Jun 10 02:00:38
[13:55] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[13:56] <Rjd0060> Yes, but why?
[13:56] <zocky> are any mainstream american media reporting that kucinich submitted articles of impeachment on bush?
[13:56] <Sfan00> Aeternus quit message was of concern
[13:56] * Rakni-d7 (n=Rakni-d7@69.0.38.248) has left #wikipedia
[13:56] <Sfan00> zocky; ROFL
[13:56] <The359> I saw nothing on the CNN main page last night, zocky
[13:56] <zocky> google news seems to only have minor media and agencies on it
[13:57] <Sfan00> zocky: It won't go anywhere
[13:57] <zocky> Sfan00, that's not the point
[13:57] <Sfan00> Kunich is a minority politican with a minority audience
[13:57] <The359> not the point?
[13:57] <The359> you want the media making a big thing out of a minor blip that will go nowhere?
[13:57] <zocky> "a member of congress starts impeachment procedures against president" is clearly news
[13:58] <The359> not really
[13:58] <zocky> The359, no, I'd expect them to report it
[13:58] <tombom> no it isn't news
[13:58] <Lycurgus> well he got it in the congressional record and it made most of the major media
[13:58] <The359> Any dick can start an impeachment procedure
[13:58] <zocky> oh, it happens all the time?
[13:58] <The359> doesn't mean it goes anywhere
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 13:58:57 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 13:58:57 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[13:58] SpamTunes stopped.
[13:58] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 13:58:57 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 14:28:28 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[14:28] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[14:28] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[14:28] * Set by MZMcBride on Tue Jun 10 02:00:38
[14:28] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[14:28] <Sfan00> Maybe as I said , 'Death on the Rock' would be a better example...
[14:28] <zocky> it was a senseless killing of a bunch of people that weren't presenting any threat to UK, but it was legal
[14:28] <Ceiling_Cat> Perhaps in the future over juntas will think twice before attacking a world power
[14:29] * lulz is now known as Cream
[14:29] <Ceiling_Cat> that's the moral of the story
[14:29] <Sfan00> or any of the countless alegged things that went on in Nothern Ierlans
[14:29] <quanticle> zocky: Right.  Our visit to the Mayo clinic was paid for with private funds, as are most hospital visits here in the US.  The issue I have with socialized medicine, is that, in many cases (see Canada), there are restrictions placed on the amount or type of private care you can get.
[14:29] <Sfan00> *Northen Ierland
[14:29] <Sfan00> quanticle: Thats VERY true of the current NHS
[14:29] <OverlordQ> quanticle: lies
[14:29] <Mike_H> Sfan00: Ierland?
[14:29] <quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: To be fair, after World War 2, Britain was hardly a "world power".
[14:29] <Sfan00> here in the UK
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 14:30:18 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 14:30:18 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[14:30] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 14:30:27 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 16:26:29 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[16:26] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[16:26] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[16:26] * Set by MZMcBride on Tue Jun 10 02:00:38
[16:26] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[16:26] * Thehelpfulone__ (n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone) has joined #wikipedia
[16:26] * peh (n=peh@h51580e56.c46-01-07.dyn.perspektivbredband.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[16:27] * lucasbfr (n=lucasbfr@wikipedia/lucasbfr) has joined #wikipedia
[16:27] * lulz is now known as Cream
[16:28] * Rdsmith4 (n=Rdsmith4@wikipedia/Rdsmith4) has joined #wikipedia
[16:30] * Olipro (n=Olipro@unaffiliated/olipro) Quit (Nick collision from services. )
[16:30] * Olipro (n=Olipro@unaffiliated/olipro) has joined #wikipedia
[16:31] <Golbez> man
[16:31] <Golbez> 15 candidates for the board
[16:31] <Golbez> and not a looker in the bunch
[16:31] <Golbez> where da lady candidates at?
[16:31] <OverlordQ> lol
[16:32] <Messedrocker> look at percentage
[16:32] <Messedrocker> and not numbers
[16:32] * Lookante (i=zarock@mandos.lookante.org) Quit (Connection timed out )
[16:32] * Photons (n=meow@ADijon-258-1-111-63.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit ("++" )
[16:32] <Cream> next year
[16:32] * Olipro (n=Olipro@unaffiliated/olipro) Quit (Nick collision from services. )
[16:32] <Cream> i''m running
[16:32] <Golbez> ok
[16:32] * Olipro (n=Olipro@unaffiliated/olipro) has joined #wikipedia
[16:34] * The359 will have to remember not to vote for you
[16:34] * Sfan00 (n=sfan00@dyn-62-56-83-45.dslaccess.co.uk) has joined #Wikipedia
[16:37] * Thehelpfulone___ (n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone) has joined #wikipedia
[16:37] Clones detected from wikimedia/Thehelpfulone: 8 Thehelpfulone__ Thehelpfulone___
[16:39] <kingturtle> i was disappointed to see that there were only male candidates
[16:39] * THO|Away (n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone) Quit (Connection timed out )
[16:39] * Thehelpfulone___ is now known as THO|Away
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[16:40] * WBOSITG (n=mode@unaffiliated/wbositg) has joined #Wikipedia
[16:41] <Sfan00> Anyone know of a an ebay users channel?
[16:41] * Thehelpfulone (n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone) Quit (Connection timed out )
[16:41] <Messedrocker> Sfan00, try lemonparty.org
[16:42] <Cream> no no no
[16:42] <Cream> 2girls1cup.com
[16:43] * Cream is now known as LOUD_CAT
[16:43] <Sfan00> Messedrocker: You do realise that redirecting someone to NSFW content maybe considered a crime in some jurisdictions?
[16:43] * LOUD_CAT chuckles
[16:43] <LOUD_CAT> where?
[16:43] <Golbez> Sfan00- then they should probably get a better government. =p
[16:43] * Thehelpfulone_ (n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone) Quit (Connection timed out )
[16:43] <Sfan00> Loud_Cat: The UK
[16:43] <Sfan00> :(
[16:44] <kingturtle> NSFW is a legal term now?
[16:44] * LOUD_CAT is now known as Cream
[16:45] <Messedrocker> Sfan00, I don't live in your repressive 3rd world country
[16:45] * Thehelpfulone__ (n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone) Quit (Connection timed out )
[16:45] <Sfan00> ROFL
[16:45] <Sfan00> the UK Is hardly 3rd world :)
[16:46] <kingturtle> ROFL should be a crime
[16:46] <kingturtle> unless you are literally ROL
[16:46] * Thehelpfulone__ (n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone) has joined #wikipedia
[16:46] Clones detected from wikimedia/Thehelpfulone: 8 THO|Away Thehelpfulone___ Thehelpfulone__
[16:46] * erwin85 (i=erwin@wikimedia/Erwin85) Quit (Remote closed the connection )
[16:46] <Sfan00> kingturtle@ I was actually :)
[16:46] <Sfan00> The UK is in no way 3rd-world
[16:47] * Odinnzor (n=Odinnzor@85.97.155.39) has left #wikipedia
[16:47] <kingturtle> yeah, they don't HAVE to eat spam anymore
[16:48] * Tesla (n=chatzill@adsl-75-9-141-213.dsl.elpstx.sbcglobal.net) Quit ("learned.... that life is tough, but I'm tougher" )
[16:48] <kingturtle> i must commend the UK on its recovery from ww2
[16:48] <kingturtle> it was a long, awful process
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 16:48:41 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 16:48:41 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[16:48] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 16:48:41 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 17:30:11 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[17:30] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[17:30] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[17:30] * Set by MZMcBride on Tue Jun 10 02:00:38
[17:30] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[17:30] <Golbez> Sadly, they aren't allowed to.
[17:30] <tombom> yeah other private companies carry freight
[17:30] <The359> Turning all public schools private would simply leave those poor who fail to pay taxes in the first place from being able to send their children to school
[17:30] * Gazimoff tries to find the motivation to finish an oh-so-close sandbox article
[17:30] <The359> because you can send a child to public school even if you don't pay your taxes
[17:30] <Golbez> When they have to run a rail to a remote town in West Bugfuck County, Texas, because a congressman who controls Amtrak's funding needs their votes, that really keeps them from being able to run an efficient system.
[17:30] * THO|Away is now known as Thehelpfulone
[17:30] <Sfan00> Does Amtrak have a near monopoly on Passanger rail?
[17:30] <Golbez> The359- But the poor do pay taxes, that's my point. =p
[17:30] <Golbez> Sfan00- Yeah, pretty much.
[17:30] <Sfan00> Why?
[17:30] <The359> Not necessarily, Golbez
[17:30] <ggreer> The359: not to mention private schools can be more indoctrinating than educating
[17:30] <Sfan00> Surley there must again be profitbale passanger routes?
[17:30] <Aqwis> oh my god
[17:30] * lulz is now known as Cream
[17:30] <Aqwis> monobi discussion again
[17:30] * Aqwis (i=Aqwis@214.85-200-143.bkkb.no) has left #wikipedia ("Forlater kanalen" )
[17:30] <Golbez> ggreer- Who's to say public schools don't indoctrinate?
[17:31] <The359> And turning all public schools private, would still leave the schools in the same conditions
[17:31] * Mm40 (n=chatzill@pool-71-187-66-153.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #wikipedia
[17:31] <Cream> hi The359
[17:31] <Golbez> manlymatt83, aqwis really is scared of words.
[17:31] <The359> The education would not get much better, if at all
[17:31] <ggreer> Golbez: they do, but the laws about encouraging/discouraging religion and whatnot are much stricter for public schools
[17:31] * CWii (n=CWii@ool-45721bc3.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #wikipedia
[17:31] <Sky2042> Something about 1st amendment...
[17:31] <ggreer> basically Golbez's proposal would open up a huge can of worms and screw over anyone who can't afford to pay taxes
[17:31] <Sfan00> Maybe the Establishment clause should apply to all education ;)
[17:31] <Sky2042> What was it again>
[17:31] <Golbez> ggreer- they indoctrinate pretty well what the government wants kids to learn.
[17:32] <Sky2042> Golbez: not the teachers I've had.
[17:32] <Golbez> Sky2042- How old are you?
[17:32] <Sfan00> Golbez: So schools should have financial and cirrcular soverignty?
[17:32] <Sky2042> 18, what else?
[17:32] * Phoenixwi (n=chatzill@wikipedia/Phoenix-wiki) has joined #wikipedia
[17:32] <Sky2042> I'm graduating tonight, as a matter of fact
[17:32] * The359 points out even illegal immigrants can sent their children to public school without paying any taxes
[17:32] <The359> send
[17:32] <Golbez> Just curious. I noticed a downturn in schooling around 18 years ago, but maybe you got lucky (or my POV was incorrect)
[17:32] <Sky2042> possibly both
[17:32] <Golbez> actually I should say 15 years
[17:32] <Sfan00> Speaking from a UK perspective
[17:32] * Qst is now known as Qst_away
[17:33] <Sfan00> The UK has state schools
[17:33] <Sfan00> Private Schools
[17:33] <ggreer> Golbez: private schools also lack things like PTA councils. usually it's the richest parents who have influence at a private school
[17:33] <Sky2042> it might be where I'm living.
[17:33] <Sfan00> and 'Public Schools'
[17:33] <Sfan00> which are often charities
[17:33] <Sfan00> (or at the very least Charitable trusts)
[17:33] <Monobi> ggreer, so? You should get what you payed for
[17:33] <Golbez> ggreer- so go to a private school with a PTA. =p That's the nice thing about choice. And if you wouldn't have a choice in a private system, chances are you don't in a public system.
[17:33] * bjelleklang_away is now known as bjelleklang
[17:34] <Monobi> In a non-complosory education environment you are not forced to attended any institution you do not wish to attend
[17:34] <Sfan00> Does the US have local schools for local people
[17:34] <Sfan00> ?
[17:34] <CrazyChemGuy> There's an editing competition in the sandbox, apparently. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=history
[17:34] * darkmeerkat (n=nate@cpe-24-221-52-5.az.sprintbbd.net) Quit ("Lost terminal" )
[17:34] <tombom> Monobi: do you believe poor people should stay poor forever
[17:34] <Golbez> What do you mean? People are forced to go to schools in their school district
[17:34] <tombom> you sound like sucha lovely person.
[17:34] <Sky2042> Education is a necessity for "democracy". So Monobi, what you are saying is paramount to anarchy.
[17:34] <ggreer> Golbez: schools are like roads: you can't privatize them because of logistics
[17:34] <CrazyChemGuy> O.o Fortunately this is the post-bigdelete era
[17:35] <Monobi> Sky2042, yes, Anarchy is the goal
[17:35] <tombom> Sky he wants that apparently
[17:35] * Sky2042 was waiting for roads.
[17:35] <Sky2042> Monobi: LOL!
[17:35] <tombom> he believes it would create a lovely market utopia
[17:35] <Golbez> where we're going, we don't need roads.
[17:35] <Monobi> tombom, no, but in a free society, if someone is poor, it is THEIR problem
[17:35] <ggreer> you can only have so many schools in a given area
[17:35] <Sfan00> Sky2042: "What have the Romans EVER done for US?"
[17:35] <Sfan00> ;)
[17:35] <tombom> yes you keep saying that
[17:35] <tombom> doesn't make it any less horrible
[17:35] <Golbez> ggreer- right, same with grocery stores, power plants, and car factories
[17:36] <The359> heh
[17:36] <The359> Indiana sold their Toll Road to an Australian corporation ;)
[17:36] <Golbez> the private market handles those (well, two of those) just fine
[17:36] * tombom (i=tombom@82.26.198.209) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2" )
[17:36] <Sky2042> Sfan00: lol, really!
[17:36] <Golbez> (fair warning: i'm leaving in 4 minutes. =p)
[17:36] <The359> actually a Spanish-Australian corporation
[17:37] <Sfan00> Monobi: You may change your view when the oil crash renders economists superflous
[17:37] <Sky2042> What hapens when private schools start outsourcing?
[17:37] * Sky2042 jokes.
[17:38] <Monobi> Sfan00, that has everything to do with the federal reserves
[17:38] * tgies (n=tgies@ip72-196-21-90.om.om.cox.net) Quit (Connection timed out )
[17:38] <Monobi> Sfan00, if we had sound currency we wouldn't have these issues
[17:38] <Monobi> Like a Gold Standard
[17:38] <Sky2042> Of course, all of this would be solved if there was no money, and people worked out of the goodness of their heart...
[17:38] <rory|zzz> ...
[17:39] <Sky2042> >.>
[17:39] <ggreer> Golbez: you can have a lot more grocery stores in an area than interstates or high schools
[17:39] * Rjd0060 (n=Rjd0060@wikimedia/Rjd0060) Quit ("BRB" )
[17:39] <rory|zzz> Sky2042: what are you, some kind of commie? ;)
[17:39] <Sfan00> Sky2042: The ulitmate market is that with no govt
[17:39] <Sfan00> Where groups of skills and goods are traded at a fair price
[17:39] <ggreer> the bay area has 3 north-south freeways going from SF/oakland to san jose
[17:39] <Golbez> ggreer- Not really; at a certain point, you'll have too many grocery stores. The market figures out where that point is. But since the market doesn't operate in public schooling, often the officials have no clue whether or not they have the right amount of schools.
[17:39] <Sky2042> rory|zzz: I'm "liberal" in some ways and "conservative" in others.
[17:39] * Az1568 (n=1568@wikimedia/Az1568) has joined #Wikipedia
[17:40] <ggreer> if they were privatized the companies running them could charge whatever they wanted
[17:40] <Sky2042> Sfan00: certainly. but that's not possible.
[17:40] <Monobi> ggreer, yes, they could
[17:40] <ggreer> since it takes time and money to build a road
[17:40] <Golbez> we'
[17:40] <Sfan00> Why not?
[17:40] <The359> Golbez, schools are usually assigned
[17:40] <Monobi> ggreer, but it isn't in their best interests
[17:40] <The359> It's not a market
[17:40] <Golbez> we're discussing schools, not roads. =p a school is much closer to a grocery store than a road
[17:40] <ggreer> you need right-of-way, permits, maintenance, etc
[17:40] <Monobi> Because if the price is too high, no one will buy
[17:40] <Monobi> ggreer, yes, the market will handle that
[17:41] <Sfan00> As is happening with UK unviersities Monobi
[17:41] <Sfan00> :(
[17:41] <The359> they know when to build more or less based on attendance
[17:41] <ggreer> and since it's a freaking road it's not like you have a choice
[17:41] <Golbez> The359- then how do you know if you have enough, or if they're in the right location? They're guessing and forcing, they have no actual clue. =p
[17:41] <The359> or restructuring the school districts
[17:41] <Sky2042> Sfan00: because, eventually someone comes along and says "I'm charging this. You and I should be friends, and we'll charge the same price" then we end up with monopolies and an economy which is essentially representative of communism-in-practice, but with the private beings in control of the economy rather than the government.
[17:41] <The359> what do you mean, "right location"?
[17:41] <ggreer> Golbez: ok, it takes time to hire teachers, build gyms, buy a few acres of property in a suburban area
[17:41] <The359> the location of the school has nothing to do with it
[17:41] <The359> and it's the number of teachers and class rooms that are important
[17:41] <The359> not the number of schools
[17:41] <ggreer> also kids don't want to switch schools because they make friends
[17:42] <Golbez> In Charlotte, I remember they had problems with some schools being at double capacity, others at half. Clearly, they had no clue where to build. A market motivator might accelerate the repair of the situation; without one, they're just guessing.
[17:42] * Rjd0060 (n=Rjd0060@wikimedia/Rjd0060) has joined #wikipedia
[17:42] <The359> no, they had no clue how to break up the districts
[17:42] <Sky2042> Golbez: that just sounds like poor government planning and spending.
[17:42] <ggreer> Golbez: what you really want is a public school system with accountability
[17:42] <Golbez> The359- Location matters when someone is forced to go to one 2 miles away instead of the one 2 blocks away, because of how the districts are designed.
[17:42] <Mm40> !Admin delete the main page
[17:42] <Sky2042> Mm40: lol.
[17:42] <The359> What does that matter, Golbez?
[17:42] <The359> they still go to a school
[17:42] <Golbez> Sky2042- Precisely. The market can almost always move faster than the public sector.
[17:42] <The359> which features the same amount as the other school
[17:42] <Sfan00> Golbez: "local schools for local people"
[17:42] <Sfan00> :)
[17:42] <Monobi> >_>
[17:43] <The359> If everyone went to the school closest to them, it'd be chaos
[17:43] <rory|zzz> ugh, only one rfa
[17:43] <rory|zzz> disgusting
[17:43] * tgies (n=tgies@ip72-196-21-90.om.om.cox.net) has joined #wikipedia
[17:43] <Golbez> The359- Even if the local one is half empty, and the one they're forced to is double capacity? =p
[17:43] <ggreer> Golbez: the market can't always move faster than the public sector. capitalism fails pretty often when people are enamored with short-term gains
[17:43] <The359> That's poor planning, Golbez
[17:43] <The359> not poor location
[17:43] <ggreer> I mean look at this oil speculation business
[17:43] <Sky2042> Golbez: it's not an issue of moving faster or slower, it's an issue of people being elected who don't know how to do the job properly
[17:43] <ggreer> you don't need a free market, you need accountability
[17:44] <Sfan00> Perhpas we should do away with politicians? :)
[17:44] * MZMcBride (n=MZMcBrid@wikipedia/MZMcBride) has left #wikipedia
[17:44] * MZMcBride (n=MZMcBrid@wikipedia/MZMcBride) has joined #wikipedia
[17:44] <Golbez> ggreer- the free market is the best accountability available. =p
[17:44] <Sfan00> And have Govt Executives instead :)
[17:44] <Sfan00> ;)
[17:44] <Sky2042> Sfan00: chuckle.
[17:44] <ggreer> Golbez: not really. I just pointed out a massive failing of the free market
[17:44] <CrazyChemGuy> Isn't it supposed to editconflict me against myself if I accidentally hit save twice? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tailsic&action=history Or is that just because its a new comment? Still, I don't understand why the first post wasn't signed if that was the case...
[17:44] <Sky2042> CrazyChemGuy: this is normal.
[17:44] <Sfan00> Sky2402: HAve you ever analysed some of the stuff in Robocop ?
[17:44] <Golbez> The oil speculation is far too complex to say "the free market failed", especially considering most oil is produced by state-owned companies. =p
[17:45] <Golbez> and now I am four minutes over
[17:45] <ggreer> Golbez: most of the rise in price is due to investors buying oil futures
[17:45] <Sky2042> Sfan00: nope. i haven't ever really watched it. your point is made either way.
[17:45] <Sfan00> Golbez: Well OPEC isn't exactly a 'friendly' corporation out for competion
[17:45] <Sfan00> :)
[17:45] <Sfan00> Sky2402: In Robcop2 OCP takes Detroit 'Private'
[17:46] <ggreer> anyway it will take years for car companies to roll out electric vehicles
[17:46] <Golbez> and as I said nine minutes ago, I had to leave
[17:46] <Sky2042> Sfan00: (2042)
[17:46] <Golbez> so
[17:46] <Golbez> i must withdraw from the conversation
[17:46] <ggreer> because they were all about the short-term gains that came from making high-margin SUVs
[17:46] <Sfan00> Electric vehicles aren't an answer
[17:46] <Sfan00> What you really need is inteligent roads :)
[17:46] <ggreer> Sfan00: they're part of an answer. electricity is a hell of a lot cheaper than the same amount of energy in gas
[17:47] <Sfan00> ggreer: True
[17:47] <zocky> electric cars have a huge problem with the weight of the batteries
[17:47] <Sfan00> OK Maybe Electric vehicle are an answer
[17:47] <zocky> air cars are much more likely to be useful soon
[17:47] <Sfan00> Air cars?
[17:47] <Golbez> my 30mpg focus is doing just fine
[17:47] <Golbez> who needs electric cars
[17:47] <Sfan00> As in
[17:47] <zocky> compressed air engine cars
[17:47] <Sfan00> ?
[17:47] <Sky2042> Golbez: shoo. you have somewhere to be, no?
[17:47] <Sfan00> Huh?
[17:48] <Sfan00> What powers the compressor?
[17:48] <zocky> Sfan00, they're supposed to start selling in a few months
[17:48] <Golbez> Sky2042- yes, right here, working at my computer. i withdrew from the argument, as it was sapping my time, but i can still drop in once in a while. =p
[17:48] <zocky> Sfan00, a nuclear powerplant, or whatever
[17:48] <Sky2042> Golbez: aha.
[17:48] <NotASpy> Air cars ? Is that when you get John Prescott to walk behind you with a big straw and blow you to wherever it is you want to go ?
[17:48] <Sfan00> So how do you fill up?
[17:48] <Sfan00> NotASpy: ROFL
[17:48] <Sfan00> :)
[17:48] <NotASpy> economy would be measured in pies per mile, of course. :p
[17:49] <zocky> Sfan00, either at a specialized service station in 2-3 minutes, or in your own garage overnight
[17:49] <Sky2042> Golbez: btw, tell that 30mpg Focus its bad for the Earth either way. I would disagree that electric vehicles are the way to go as my compadriots would seem to be heading in the direction
[17:49] <Sfan00> So How would this compressed air car work
[17:49] <Sfan00> ?
[17:49] <Golbez> Sky2042- bad for the earth? huh. odd that you complain about that, but not the fart I just let loose.
[17:49] <Sfan00> (Of course you could also run a compresser by cycle power)
[17:50] <Golbez> wait, crap, no, no arguing
[17:50] <Golbez> stop it, meanie
[17:50] <Sky2042> Golbez: haha.
[17:50] * Thehelpfulone (n=Helper@wikimedia/Thehelpfulone) Quit (Connection timed out )
[17:50] <CrazyChemGuy> What should be done with a user that has been repeatedly blocked for inappropriate edits in the sandbox who is continuing to add several hundred unproductive edits there...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/70.100.142.209
[17:50] <Sfan00> Warn and block for 24h?
[17:51] <CrazyChemGuy> Well, I'm not sure, as it is the sandbox... also I can't do the blocking part here... not an admin. Should I just AIV it?
[17:51] <NotASpy> I'm assuming one of two ways - a compressed air tank is your fuel tank, it's connected to a pneumatic motor that turns the wheels, much like a conventional engine, but that's dull. I'd bet on the pneumatic motor turning an electric alternator, which charges up super-capacitors. Regenerative braking would charge the capacitors up under breaking or going down hill, saving air.
[17:51] <NotASpy> you would then have electric motors on each wheel.
[17:51] <CrazyChemGuy> I already warned the user by hand, but they didn't respond and kept editing.
[17:52] * Mike_H (n=mike_dot@220-230.161-24.tampabay.res.rr.com) Quit (Connection timed out )
[17:52] <Sfan00> CrazyChemGuy: have you traced the IP?
[17:52] <CrazyChemGuy> Sfan00: It's tagged as shared.
[17:52] * TMN_ (n=TMN@CPE0002724fa6c0-CM0014e8b60306.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit
[17:52] <Sfan00> Which ISP?
[17:52] * rory|zzz is now known as rory096
[17:53] * TMN (n=TMN@CPE0002724fa6c0-CM0014e8b60306.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wikipedia
[17:53] * Kerotan (n=chatzill@wikipedia/Kerotan) has joined #wikipedia
[17:53] <CrazyChemGuy> "This IP address, 70.100.142.209, is registered to Frontier Communications Fairport NY, "
[17:53] <Mm40> Hi Kerotan
[17:53] <CrazyChemGuy> I'll run a whois, hang on
[17:54] <Rinn> Nobody say "grinned!"
[17:54] <CrazyChemGuy> Sfan00: It just says "ADSL Frontier Fairport NY "
[17:54] <Kerotan> Hello Mm40.
[17:55] <Kerotan> Rinn: Why?
[17:55] <Rinn> Just don't say it. Whatever you do, don't.
[17:55] * Not_the_NSA (n=R@wikipedia/R) has joined #wikipedia
[17:55] <CrazyChemGuy> I'm just gonna file an AIV report
[17:56] * Cyrius (n=t-bone@cpe-66-25-251-172.gt.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia
[17:56] <Rinn> Not_the_NSA, Cyrius: Don't say "grinned!"
[17:56] * Thx (n=usarn@nttkyo716146.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp) Quit ("Leaving.." )
[17:56] * Haley (n=Haley@wikimedia/Dalibor-Bosits) Quit (Remote closed the connection )
[17:56] <Cyrius> your reverse psychology will not work on me!
[17:56] <Not_the_NSA> O_O?
[17:57] <The359> odd
[17:57] <The359> BMW has unveiled a concept car
[17:57] <The359> which uses a metal frame underneath
[17:57] <The359> and the entire skin is flexible cloth
[17:57] <Rinn> It's entirely unadvisable to say "grinned."
[17:58] <Cyrius> The359: in the video, I find it really creepy when the headlights come on
[17:58] <Monobi> The359, link?
[17:58] <The359> yes it is, Cyrius
[17:58] <The359> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTYiEkQYhWY
[17:58] * Rinn is now known as Grinned
[17:58] <Golbez> Do you think there might be a place for this photo in [[John Hancock Center]]? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:John_Hancock_Center_June_6_08_sunlight.jpg
[17:59] <Golbez> If only I hadn't cut off the corner... :(
[17:59] <Sky2042> Golbez: because we can't stop farting. we can stop using oil as a primary source of fuel.
[17:59] <The359> the frame underneath can also be moved to change the shape of the car
[17:59] <Grinned> You see my name? You shouldn't type that.
[17:59] * Grinned is now known as Rinn
[17:59] * Sky2042 really had to think a while about tht one.
[18:00] <Golbez> Sky2042- It might surprise you to hear that I agree (though not entirely, but that's complex) but remember that much electricity is also generated with coal, so you're replacing one point of pollution with another.
[18:00] <ggreer> NotASpy: a compressed air powered motor wouldn't work too well because expanding gasses get cold
[18:00] <Sky2042> Golbez: which is why i said electricity isn't the answer =)
[18:00] * Lubaf (n=chatzill@c-67-188-191-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[18:00] <Golbez> I'd love for us to be exploiting all of the various forces on and around earth to derive power. Wind, solar, tidal, geothermal, etc.
[18:00] <ggreer> Golbez: but coal plants are more efficient than gas engines
[18:00] <Golbez> The answer is fusion!
[18:00] <Sky2042> Yes
[18:00] <Sky2042> It is.
[18:00] <ggreer> nuclear power man
[18:00] <Cyrius> single-source pollution is easier to control
[18:01] <Golbez> fusion, and tidal. I am in love with tidal for some reason.
[18:01] <Golbez> It's constant
[18:01] <Cyrius> it's not constant, but it's predictable
[18:01] <Golbez> Well ok, true
[18:01] <ggreer> it's really low energy density
[18:01] <Golbez> so, any response to my question? :)
[18:01] <Sky2042> Tidal has environmental consequences I believe, though I haven't really researched it.
[18:01] <Golbez> We need distributed power generation.
[18:01] <Golbez> Every home with a little solar or wind or what not generator, buying from or selling back to the grid as needed
[18:02] <ggreer> solar cells are expensive
[18:02] * Thx (n=usarn@nttkyo716146.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp) has joined #wikipedia
[18:02] <NotASpy> Sky2042: it buggers up the turbidity of the water, and can affect silting, this affecting birds and fishes and loaves (OK, not loaves) in the area.
[18:02] * Dtobias (n=chatzill@c-71-57-188-191.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.9/2008031312]" )
[18:02] <The359> http://zeropollutionmotors.us/
[18:02] <Sky2042> ggreer: as expensive as worse (least) case scenario of global warming?
[18:02] <The359> Company which builds cars which run on compressed air
[18:02] <Sky2042> o_o
[18:02] <Cyrius> ggreer: let nanosolar expand their production capacity
[18:02] <Sky2042> ^
[18:03] <Sky2042> NotASpy: I thought so.
[18:03] <ggreer> Sky2042: global temperature has gone up like 3C in the past century. humans can easily adapt to the climate change
[18:03] <ggreer> the rest of the environment, not so much
[18:03] <Sky2042> ggreer: sure, /we/ can.
[18:03] <Sky2042> exactly.
[18:03] * nniR (n=invalide@h210.180.97.216.ip.alltel.net) has joined #wikipedia
[18:04] <nniR> Still not saying "grinned," right?
[18:04] <ggreer> nuclear is cheaper than solar
[18:04] <NotASpy> the Severn Barrage in the UK does have the capability to generate upto 16GW of electric, between 5 and 10% of the entire UK requirement, and it would make an excellent transport link between Wales and England at the same time.
[18:04] <ggreer> and nuclear works when it's cloudy out
[18:04] <Sky2042> ggreer: radioactivity though?
[18:04] * Rinn (n=invalide@h243.166.97.216.ip.alltel.net) Quit (Nick collision from services. )
[18:04] * nniR is now known as Rinn
[18:04] <The359> the air in the compressed cars
[18:04] <The359> is apparently stored at 4500PSI
[18:04] <ggreer> Sky2042: throw it in a mine shaft
[18:04] <NotASpy> just needs upto £100 bn to build it.
[18:04] <Sky2042> The359: essentially, ready to blow up at a moments notice?
[18:04] <Sky2042> :DD
[18:04] <The359> probably
[18:04] <The359> but then, so can gasoline ;)
[18:04] * Kerotan is now known as Antonio_Lopez
[18:05] * Mm40 is now known as Kerotan
[18:05] <Sky2042> The359: true.
[18:05] <ggreer> get a crash with a compressed air car and a hole in the fuel tank will definitely cause an explosion
[18:05] <Rinn> I'm a fan of freedom of speech--just don't say "grinned."
[18:05] * Sky2042 wonders what the conversion rate for PSI is to bars.
[18:05] * Antonio_Lopez is now known as Kerotana
[18:05] <ggreer> or it will send your car through the air like an untied balloon
[18:05] <Sfan00> Anyone here know about Polywell?
[18:06] <Cyrius> gasoline cannot explode on a moment's notice
[18:06] <The359> 310 bar, sky
[18:06] <Rinn> Sfan00: No, but I know about not saying "grinned" and that you shouldn't do so.
[18:06] * Mbimmler (n=Michael@wikimedia/Mbimmler) Quit ("Verlassend" )
[18:07] <Sky2042> can you say, "squished"?
[18:07] <ggreer> Cyrius: it can burn pretty quickly. especially if you're a complete idiot: http://www.kontraband.com/videos/11315/The-Darwin-Award-Winner-of-ALL-TIME/
[18:07] <NotASpy> the compressed air tank could be wrapped in ballistic kevlar or some carbon nanotube material to prevent a catastrophic explosion
[18:07] <ggreer> but yeah, gas is much safer than compressed air
[18:08] <ggreer> NotASpy: if we're putting carbon nanotubes in cars then our energy problems have been solved a few years go
[18:08] <ggreer> *ago
[18:08] * sorryitwasme_ (n=chatzill@87.114.141.182.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #wikipedia
[18:08] <ggreer> wtf was that dude thinking though? using a lighter to look inside the tank of a gas truck?
[18:08] <Cyrius> a carbon fiber tank would rip, not explode
[18:08] <Sky2042> lol.....
[18:08] * David-Mestel (n=chatzill@wikipedia/David.Mestel) Quit (Connection timed out )
[18:08] * Sky2042 afks for some dish washing putting away.
[18:08] * Kerotana is now known as Mm40
[18:09] * Kerotan is now known as Mm40_on_wheels
[18:09] * Mm40 is now known as Kerotan
[18:09] * Mm40_on_wheels is now known as Mm40
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[18:10] <The359> Carbon fiber shatters, Cyrius
[18:10] <The359> not rips
[18:10] <NotASpy> what about that chap that reckons internal combustion (well, oxidisation) of fine metal oxides to power cars - is that worth further investigation ?
[18:11] <ggreer> NotASpy: not really. metal is expensive
[18:11] <ggreer> and metal oxides in the air? fuck that
[18:12] <ggreer> the solution is probably going to be electric cars
[18:12] <ggreer> batteries are only going to get better
[18:12] <Cyrius> perhaps I was misinformed
[18:12] <NotASpy> ggreer: he reckons the easy option would be to have a variable membrane fuel cartridge that would contain the un-oxidised metal, with a membrane that would collect oxidised metal from the exhaust. You would then swap the fuel cartridge, and no metal oxides would be released into the atmosphere. The cartridge would then be reduced back and prepared for use again.
[18:13] <ggreer> NotASpy: that sounds like a really crappy backwards way of having a battery
[18:13] * tawker2 (n=tawker@wikipedia/Tawker) has joined #wikipedia
[18:13] * jackster (n=jackdona@91.105.211.161) Quit
[18:13] <ggreer> and I don't know how you're going to filter atomized aluminum oxide or something like that
[18:14] <The359> http://sirocco.accuweather.com/nx_mosaic_640x480_public/sir/inmaSIRPA_.gif
[18:14] <The359> weee
[18:14] <The359> it's like a game of chance
[18:14] <The359> are you going to be hit by a storm or not
[18:14] <NotASpy> yeah. There's so much energy wasted in the braking (and to an extent, the acceleration process) that an electric transmission system could harness, we would be stupid not to go for electric cars.
[18:14] * Mor_Cat (n=chatzill@189.162.18.70) has joined #wikipedia
[18:14] <Cyrius> big money no whammy
[18:15] * Mm40 is now known as Mm50_in_food
[18:15] <The359> heh, yeah
[18:15] <The359> I was thinking Whack a Mole, Cyrius
[18:15] <ggreer> NotASpy: yep. the nice thing about the US car fleet is that it practically gets replaced every 15 years, so once an affordable electric car comes about it will be less than a decade before most people have one
[18:16] <ggreer> assuming it has similar capabilities to a gas car. I'm guessing they'll start off having a shorter range
[18:16] <ggreer> but it will be good enough for people who stay in the city
[18:16] <CrazyChemGuy> Oooh somebody name a molecule that needs a public domain image! My new software just came.
[18:16] <ggreer> aspartame?
[18:17] <ggreer> I'm surprised there's not a bot that makes those images
[18:17] <NotASpy> what do we think about fuel cells ?
[18:17] <CrazyChemGuy> There's not
[18:17] <ggreer> fuel cells are batteries, just a little more complicated
[18:17] <Sky2042> NotASpy: until hydrogen becomes a positive net to make it...
[18:18] <CrazyChemGuy> I'd imagine that its too complicated a task for a bot, because the bot would have to determine what the structure was based on the article.
[18:18] * Sceptre is now known as faroframkallaway
[18:18] <Sky2042> CrazyChemGuy: the formulas are usually provided.
[18:18] <ggreer> CrazyChemGuy: oh, yeah. not to mention l- and d- isomers for a lot of stuff
[18:18] <Sky2042> oh yeah....
[18:18] * Tesla (n=chatzill@adsl-75-9-141-213.dsl.elpstx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #wikipedia
[18:18] * stwalkerster_ (n=stwalker@wikipedia/Stwalkerster) has joined #wikipedia
[18:18] Clones detected from wikipedia/Stwalkerster: 8 stwalkerster stwalkerster_
[18:18] <ggreer> hydrogen is an energy storage medium
[18:19] <ggreer> it's less efficient to make hydrogen than it is to charge a battery
[18:19] <NotASpy> I assume the software knows how to deal with chiral centres and such, or does it need an operator to do that ?
[18:19] * Soxred93 (n=Soxred93@unaffiliated/soxred93) Quit ("XCHat ftw" )
[18:20] * Mm50_in_food_ (n=chatzill@pool-71-187-66-153.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #wikipedia
[18:20] Clones detected from pool-71-187-66-153.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net: 8 Mm50_in_food Mm50_in_food_
[18:20] * gwern (i=gwern@wikipedia/Gwern) has joined #wikipedia
[18:22] * AzaTht (n=azatoth@wikipedia/AzaToth) Quit ("Lämnar" )
[18:22] * faroframkallaway is now known as Sceptre
[18:22] <NotASpy> battery powered cars - how do we get round the problems of the car running out of electric - rapid charging in a couple of minutes surely isn't feasible, so I'm thinking lightweight and cheap rechargeable batteries that a driver can swap out in a gas station type structure.
[18:22] * Sceptre (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/sceptre) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]" )
[18:22] * stwalkerster (n=stwalker@wikipedia/Stwalkerster) Quit (Nick collision from services. )
[18:23] <The359> AAA
[18:24] * torch (n=torchie@adsl-225-241-77.mia.bellsouth.net) Quit
[18:24] <The359> You could maybe have a secondary, backup battery
[18:24] <The359> which could be rapid recharged
[18:24] <The359> enough to get you to help
[18:25] <Sky2042> one of the other probelms with a batter powered car is related to speed and power requirements of trucks, or the need for (sometimes) rapid acceleration.
[18:25] <The359> lightweight materials can help there
[18:25] * sorryitwasme (n=chatzill@87.112.91.202.plusnet.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[18:26] <NotASpy> Sky2042: the torque from an electric motor should mean that provided an electric car doesn't weigh 3 tons, it will probably out accelerate pretty much any gas/diesel powered vehicle.
[18:27] * Viper550 (n=Viper550@d57-121-167.home.cgocable.net) Quit ("Leaving" )
[18:27] <Sky2042> how lightweight do you need to make it though, and would such a frame withstand collisions well?
[18:28] <NotASpy> The Tesla sportscar is stupidly fast because it's light and because of the way electric motors deliver power.
[18:28] <rory096> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ron_Killings&diff=218497927&oldid=218073607
[18:28] <The359> I was thinking more in terms of body panels
[18:28] <rory096> is this benoit all over again?
[18:28] <The359> instead of chassis
[18:28] * bogdan2005 (n=opera@91.123.12.106) has joined #wikipedia
[18:28] * WBOSITG (n=mode@unaffiliated/wbositg) Quit (Connection timed out )
[18:28] <The359> the Tesla is built on a Lotus Elise
[18:29] <The359> so yes, it is light
[18:29] <bogdan2005> hey, I'm an admin on en.wiki and I have a dispute with some guy who is removing sourced information.
[18:29] <bogdan2005> anyone willing to help?
[18:30] <NotASpy> Sky2042: you don't need 3 tons of car to walk away from a high speed crash, it's the design, things like rigidity of the chassis and the way you design energy to dissipate along the chassis and body.
[18:30] <Sky2042> NotASpy: granted. but that's why i asked would the frame be able to handle it?
[18:31] <NotASpy> indeed, here in the UK, one of our motoring programs crashed the biggest Volvo they built, the 940 estate, into a more modern baby Renault, and the Renault is the car you would walk away from.
[18:31] * stwalkerster_ is now known as Stwalkerster
[18:32] * jdks (i=jdks@CPE0018f3ecef24-CM001947933c38.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit
[18:33] <The359> Fifth Gear did that one, Not_the_NSA
[18:33] <The359> erm
[18:33] <The359> NotASpy
[18:33] <NotASpy> yeah.
[18:33] * Not_the_NSA attacks The359
[18:33] * Not_the_NSA stops the attack and wiretaps instead.
[18:34] <NotASpy> the Modus weighs in at 1160 kg too, so it's possible to have a lightweight but safe car.
[18:35] <Sky2042> how much did it cost to develop, and is that feasible on an economic scale?
[18:36] <Sky2042> hell, what about the materials?
[18:36] <NotASpy> the Modus is a bog standard production car
[18:36] <NotASpy> cheap and economical too, with about as much space as a decent sized SUV inside (it's well designed)
[18:37] * Warpath (i=VRS@wikimedia/Cometstyles) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host) )
[18:37] * The359 (i=The359@pool-72-78-169-253.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 18:37:45 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 18:37:45 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[18:37] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 18:37:46 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 19:10:21 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[19:10] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[19:10] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[19:10] * Set by MZMcBride on Tue Jun 10 02:00:38
[19:10] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[19:11] * Raccoon` (i=bismuth@75-173-143-95.albq.qwest.net) Quit
[19:13] * te_ (i=tao@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-d87dba85505691f6) has joined #wikipedia
[19:15] * lulz is now known as Cream
[19:15] * quanticle is now known as Schrodinger_Cat
[19:15] * Schrodinger_Cat laps up cream
[19:15] * Stwalkerster (n=stwalker@wikipedia/Stwalkerster) has left #wikipedia ("Leaving" )
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 19:16:51 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 19:16:51 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[19:16] SpamTunes stopped.
[19:16] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 19:16:56 2008

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 22:02:48 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[22:02] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[22:02] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[22:02] * Set by MZMcBride on Tue Jun 10 02:00:38
[22:02] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[22:02] <Lucifer_Cat> http://youtube.com/watch?v=arw-yNas2xc&feature=bz303   nice one
[22:02] <Enok|Walker> finally I am taking my driver's test on Friday >_>
[22:02] <The359> Hitting cones gains you 2 points.
[22:02] <Enok|Walker> wows
[22:02] <Rinn> Lucifer_Cat: I saw that coming before they even started talking.
[22:02] * MZMcBride (n=MZMcBrid@wikipedia/MZMcBride) has left #wikipedia
[22:02] * MZMcBride (n=MZMcBrid@wikipedia/MZMcBride) has joined #wikipedia
[22:02] <Lucifer_Cat> The359: XD
[22:02] <Lucifer_Cat> http://youtube.com/watch?v=lnzqpVWC2
[22:02] <Lucifer_Cat> Rinn: i thought she'd say "dont have sex"
[22:02] <The359> URL contained a malformed video
[22:02] <Enok|Walker> I made a list of the lamest things about me and #1 is "21 without a driver's license"
[22:02] <Lucifer_Cat> ok i think i deleted too many characters
[22:02] <Lucifer_Cat> http://youtube.com/watch?v=lnzqpVWC2-o
[22:03] <Krimpet> personally, I expected McCain to walk in and call her the c-word. -_-
[22:03] <Lucifer_Cat> http://youtube.com/watch?v=0MGdMazrInw
[22:03] * lulz is now known as Cream
[22:04] * Cream snuggles Krimpet
[22:04] -> *Krimpet* hi :)
[22:04] * brown_cat licks Cream
[22:04] <Lucifer_Cat> ok i have a Q.... does the fair pay bill mean that women have to be paid the same as men for that position?
[22:04] * Cream licks brown_cat
[22:04] * Kerotan (n=chatzill@wikipedia/Kerotan) Quit ("bon nuit." )
[22:04] * Lucifer_Cat kicks Cream and brown_cat
[22:04] <brown_cat> O_o
[22:05] * brown_cat cuddles Lucifer_Cat
[22:05] * Cream kicks Lucifer_Cat's balls
[22:05] <Enok|Walker> wat
[22:05] <denelson83> Now this is weird... There's a radio station in Spotsylvania, VA called WWVB-FM
[22:06] * Lucifer_Cat watches in glee as the heat from his crotch melts Cream 's leg even before it gets close
[22:06] <Lucifer_Cat> denelson83: whats weird in that?
[22:06] <denelson83> The radio station WWVB is a time signal station on 60 kHz
[22:07] * Cream loves using his FM broadcasting gadget for iPod
[22:07] <Cream> there are a few aeras in downtown Montreal where there are no radio signals
[22:07] <denelson83> WWVB is the station that makes radio-controlled clocks in North America work
[22:07] <Krimpet> "...with the station's first song being Justin Timberlake's "SexyBack"."
[22:07] <denelson83> The FCC should not have granted that station such a callsign
[22:07] <Lucifer_Cat> ooooooooo
[22:08] <Lucifer_Cat> Fucking Communist Cadres?
[22:08] * Cream loves broadcasting banned songs
[22:08] <Lucifer_Cat> fuggling canuck
[22:08] <denelson83> Lucifer_Cat: Federal Communications Commission
[22:09] <Cream> hai you guys
[22:09] <Cream> question
[22:09] <Cream> what would you do if you were out of electricity for 5 hours?
[22:10] * CydeWeys (n=Cyde@wikipedia/Cyde) has joined #wikipedia
[22:10] <denelson83> Die?
[22:10] <Cream> go to bed or masturbat-a-thon doesn't apply
[22:10] <Lucifer_Cat> Cream: damn
[22:10] <denelson83> Cream: Fuck downtown Montreal, there's a significant portion of West Virginia that doesn't have any radio signals
[22:10] <Cream> where?
[22:11] <denelson83> [[United States National Radio Quiet Zone]]
[22:11] <Lucifer_Cat> also, how can there be a masturbathon without the interwebz
[22:11] <Enok|Walker> You don't print out hard copies of your porn??
[22:11] <Lucifer_Cat> inbred freaks need quiet zones? maybe they think radio signals are devils work.
[22:12] * denelson83 ices Cream
[22:12] <Lucifer_Cat> Enok|Walker: i am cheap and use company/university printers.
[22:12] * FastLizard4 (n=FastLiza@wikipedia/FastLizard4) has joined #wikipedia
[22:12] <Lucifer_Cat> Cream: depends. day time or night time
[22:13] * Wafulz (n=wafulzwi@CPE001ee5441097-CM00195eefac34.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wikipedia
[22:13] <Lucifer_Cat> night time - i'd typically welcome the break and go get some fresh air and moonlight
[22:14] * Enok|Walker (i=Enok|Wal@ACBFD09D.ipt.aol.com) Quit ("Leaving" )
[22:14] <Cream> Lucifer_Cat, daytime
[22:14] <Cream> like it happened today
[22:14] * Soxred93 (n=Soxred93@unaffiliated/soxred93) has joined #wikipedia
[22:15] * FastLizard4 waits for his computer to implode on itself
[22:15] * Cestmoi (n=cestmoi@wikia/cest-moi) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[22:16] * BoL (i=BoL@adsl-76-231-46-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #wikipedia
[22:17] <Lucifer_Cat> my laptop had cardiac arrest today
[22:17] * Sir_Lestaty (n=Sir@wikimedia/Sir-Lestaty-de-Lioncourt) Quit ("Please dont cry, I'm back in few hours" )
[22:20] <BoL> :o
[22:20] * Pilotguy_aw is now known as Pilotguy
[22:20] * WaTSoN544 (n=gatesb@c-24-20-71-114.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #wikipedia
[22:20] <Lucifer_Cat> http://chrischynoweth.com/toads.html
[22:20] <Lucifer_Cat> it actually did
[22:20] <Lucifer_Cat> its nearing the end of its life...
[22:21] <BoL> oh no
[22:21] <Lucifer_Cat> so im looking into a new one
[22:21] * WaTSoN544 (n=gatesb@c-24-20-71-114.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has left #wikipedia
[22:21] <Lucifer_Cat> hows the Lenovo 3000 N 200?
[22:21] <BoL> it could be rehabbed...
[22:21] <Lucifer_Cat> BoL: it IS in rehab
[22:21] <BoL> My computer was purchased in '99 or something and it's still in good shape
[22:21] <BoL> and it's a windows 98, too
[22:21] * JamieS93 (n=JamieS93@adsl-4-144-81.gsp.bellsouth.net) Quit (Connection timed out )
[22:22] <BoL> and I have a windows 95 that's still relatively good
[22:22] <BoL> although my XP's pretty sluggish
[22:22] <Lucifer_Cat> BoL: this one has been abused by its original parents.
[22:22] * FastLizard4 has an IBM System 2 Model 25
[22:22] <BoL> :o
[22:22] <FastLizard4> Running MS-DOS 3.3!
[22:22] <FastLizard4> The ultimate OS!
[22:22] * Lucifer_Cat has two words for FastLizard4 ... Buzz Off
[22:22] <Lucifer_Cat> :P
[22:23] <FastLizard4> The only problem is that B: don't work no more :'(
[22:23] <Cream> YAY!
[22:23] -> *FastLizard4* sup
[22:23] * Mike_H (n=mike_dot@13-236.161-24.tampabay.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia
[22:26] <Lucifer_Cat> B: is floppier than mccains spongebob
[22:26] <bumm13> dead floppy drive?
[22:27] <FastLizard4> yup
[22:27] <bumm13> ah
[22:27] <FastLizard4> Crippling if you are running MSDOS
[22:28] * BoL (i=BoL@unaffiliated/bol) Quit (Client Quit )
[22:28] * Rdsmith4 (n=Rdsmith4@wikipedia/Rdsmith4) Quit ("." )
[22:29] * BoL (i=BoL@adsl-76-231-46-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #wikipedia
[22:29] * Luna-San (n=goodysan@wikimedia/Luna-Santin) has joined #wikipedia
[22:30] * Lucifer_Cat breaks FastLizard4 's kneecaps
[22:30] <Lucifer_Cat> something like that?
[22:30] <FastLizard4> no
[22:30] <Lucifer_Cat> oh.
[22:30] * yao_ziyuan (n=yaoziyua@222.185.4.133) has left #wikipedia
[22:30] * Lucifer_Cat repairs those suckers back to normal
[22:31] * quanticle|away (i=quanticl@wikipedia/Quanticle) Quit ("Leaving" )
[22:33] * torch (n=torchie@adsl-225-241-77.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #wikipedia
[22:38] * Ashfire908 (n=ahampe@wikipedia/Andrew-Hampe) has joined #Wikipedia
Session Close: Tue Jun 10 22:42:14 2008


Wednesday, June 11.

Session Start: Wed Jun 11 21:14:43 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[21:14] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[21:14] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[21:14] * Set by MZMcBride on Wed Jun 11 02:01:55
[21:14] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[21:14] <Alkivar> their 5.7 or 5.2ghz band gear makes great backhauls
[21:15] <Alkivar> with good high gain directiona antennas you can easily get 30 miles out of them
[21:15] <Alkivar> they got one to 80+ miles at Defcon
[21:15] <Alkivar> of course one end was on the top of a fucking mountain
[21:15] <Alkivar> to adjust for curvature
[21:16] * Zarock (n=zarock@gallowmere.babalk.su) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[21:16] * Zarock (n=zarock@gallowmere.babalk.su) has joined #wikipedia
[21:17] <quanticle> Rinncest: Hilarious.
[21:17] <Alkivar> Rinncest: you must be a fan of Tom Mabe
[21:17] * grobda24 (n=usenet_h@silentflame/member/grobda24) has joined #wikipedia
[21:17] * Rinncest wikis Tom Mabe
[21:17] * Kvant (i=hh@unaffiliated/kvant) Quit (Connection reset by peer )
[21:17] * lajla (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[21:18] <Rinncest> I probably will be.
[21:18] <Alkivar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un_PjRXV5l8
[21:18] * lulz is now known as Cream
[21:18] <Alkivar> he makes a living fucking with telemarketers
[21:18] * Rdsmith4 (n=Rdsmith4@wikipedia/Rdsmith4) has joined #wikipedia
[21:19] * Nicholas (n=chatzill@cpe-76-190-237-56.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia
[21:19] <Cream> oh Rinncest
[21:19] <Cream> :D
[21:19] * Nicholas is now known as Nwwaew
[21:19] -> *Rinncest* pssssst
[21:19] <quanticle> "Dow Jones Newswires is seeking an editor to join its equity markets
[21:19] <quanticle> team and mine publishable scoops and intelligence from the world of
[21:19] <quanticle> blogs. The successful candidate will be aggressive, self directed and
[21:19] <quanticle> interested in blogs and their proprietors, but must also possess the
[21:19] <quanticle> news judgment and high standards needed to separate the mean spirited
[21:19] <quanticle> and the overly speculative from the insightful and the useful."
[21:19] <quanticle> OMG
[21:20] <quanticle> I'm so sorry
[21:20] * Nwwaew (n=chatzill@cpe-76-190-237-56.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Client Quit )
[21:20] <rory|zzz> heh
[21:20] * quanticle honestly didn't know there were \n's in there.
[21:20] * CWii|away is now known as CWii
[21:21] * Sir48 (n=Sir48@87.59.228.103) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[21:23] * Gazimoff (i=Gazimoff@93.96.224.131) Quit
[21:24] <Dzonatas> LOL!!!!!!  -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=581081&cid=23757065
[21:24] * Snoring (n=Snoring@116.71.55.140) has joined #wikipedia
[21:24] * Snoring hugs Gracenotes
[21:25] * StayTuned (n=StayTune@rrcs-208-125-227-195.nys.biz.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia
[21:25] * Skiessi (n=JS@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe5ede00-15.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) )
[21:25] <Gracenotes> poke.
[21:25] <StayTuned> knew that was going to happen
[21:25] * gleblanc2 (n=chatzill@75.111.223.2) has joined #wikipedia
[21:25] <Snoring> Gracenotes: How you doing ?
[21:25] <gleblanc2> ok, I probably just missed something, but I'm wondering if there is a way to see the hstory of a particular section of an article
[21:26] <StayTuned> hi Gracenotes
[21:26] <Gracenotes> slooooowpoooooooke
[21:26] <Gracenotes> slowpoke?
[21:26] * Mike_H NP: Leo Sayer - When I Need You (1977)
[21:26] <Gracenotes> slooooowpoke. . . . . . . . . . . . slowpoke.
[21:26] <gleblanc2> There is a paragraph in the variable-frequency drive page, VFD controller section that doesn't make any sense
[21:27] <quanticle> Dzonatas: What's funny was that I was browsing down to that very comment when you posted the link.
[21:27] * StayTuned NP: DNA - Real Radio - XM66
[21:27] <Snoring> quanticle: You cant touch this
[21:27] <Snoring> ...
[21:28] <Mike_H> <Wikilinker> Mike_H: Currently playing on XM Radio #66 (RAW xL): DNA - Real Radio
[21:28] <Gracenotes> slow.
[21:28] <Mike_H> StayTuned: The bot on #wikinews tells you what's currently playing on XM channels
[21:28] <Mike_H> <Wikilinker> Mike_H: Currently playing on XM Radio #7 (The 70s): Eagles - The Long Run
[21:28] * bbot np: Psyclon Nine - Better Than Suicide
[21:28] <quanticle> Snoring: I can and I have.
[21:29] <Snoring> Gracenotes: Whats happenin ? you look kinda drosey.
[21:29] <Gracenotes> poke.
[21:29] * quanticle (i=quanticl@wikipedia/Quanticle) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[21:29] <StayTuned> way cool
[21:29] * BoL (i=BoL@unaffiliated/bol) Quit (Client Quit )
[21:29] * quanticle (i=quanticl@wikipedia/Quanticle) has joined #wikipedia
[21:30] * quanticle shoots Xchat
[21:30] * Krimpet (n=francine@unaffiliated/krimpet) has joined #wikipedia
[21:30] * Snoring hugs Krimpet
[21:31] <quanticle> Hello Krimpet
[21:31] <Krimpet> hello :)
[21:31] * quanticle is now known as Schrodinger_Cat
[21:31] * Cream is now known as Loooooooong_Cat
[21:31] * Krimpet is watching her parrots duke it out.
[21:32] <Snoring> byebye
[21:32] <geniice> free pics or it didn't happen
[21:32] * Cyrius read "parents" and was worried about drama
[21:32] <Snoring> Krimpet: Catch you later... take care of Gracenotes:P
[21:32] <Gracenotes> slowpoke.
[21:33] * Snoring (n=Snoring@116.71.55.140) has left #wikipedia
[21:33] <Gracenotes> Krimpet: slooooooowpoooooooooke
[21:33] <CWii> Krimpet: my lovebird is sleeping :)
[21:33] <Schrodinger_Cat> Krimpets: Parrots or parakeets?
[21:33] <CWii> Schrodinger_Cat: Parrots
[21:33] * Schrodinger_Cat has two parakeets that love to fight
[21:34] * Kvant (i=hh@unaffiliated/kvant) has joined #wikipedia
[21:35] * tawker (n=tawker@wikipedia/Tawker) has joined #wikipedia
[21:35] * IceKarma (i=ankh@wikipedia/IceKarma) Quit ("changing universes" )
[21:35] <Krimpet> Schrodinger_Cat: cockatoo and an amazon
[21:36] <Krimpet> the cockatoo puffs up and teases the amazon, amazon snaps at the cockatoo, cockatoo runs away for a minute, goes back and does it again. :)
[21:37] * StayWheels (n=StayTune@pool-72-75-210-138.bflony.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[21:37] <Schrodinger_Cat> Krimpet: Heh.  Cute.
[21:37] <CWii> Krimpet: heh :)
[21:38] <Schrodinger_Cat> Krimpet: I've got two parakeets, a blue and a yellow.  The yellow one jumps up onto the swing and hogs it, so when the blue one wants to be on the swing, he pulls on yellow's wing until yellow quite literally falls off.
[21:38] <Schrodinger_Cat> Of course, yellow just flaps and comes to a safe landing once he realizes he's falling.
[21:39] * gwern (i=gwern@wikipedia/Gwern) Quit (Remote closed the connection )
[21:39] <StayTuned> are there any family tree solutions out there that can be served on an RHEL 4.0 server?
[21:39] <Krimpet> hah. :)
[21:39] * Rdsmith4 (n=Rdsmith4@wikipedia/Rdsmith4) Quit ("." )
[21:39] <StayTuned> LAMP platform?
[21:39] * Master_son (n=Master_s@wikimedia/Master-son) has joined #wikipedia
[21:39] <Schrodinger_Cat> "Richards added that the Premier League clubs' reluctance to give England-qualified players first-team chances had led to the failure to reach the European Championship in Austria and Switzerland and to Steve McClaren being sacked as England manager after 15 months in the job." <-- They took our jerbs?
[21:40] * Not_the_NSA is now known as R_enwiki|away
[21:40] <Krimpet> StayTuned: might be worth searching SourceForge
[21:40] <StayTuned> thanks Krimpet
[21:40] <geniice> what the heck happened th knol anyway?
[21:41] <Krimpet> StayTuned: http://www.phpgedview.net/ looks like it might be what you're looking for
[21:41] <geniice> Schrodinger_Cat yes and no. due to the depth of the english profesional league there are still a fair number of jobs for british players
[21:42] <StayTuned> Oh this is cool Krimpet - I wonder if it lets you stick photos on pages
[21:42] <StayTuned> thanks
[21:42] <geniice> Schrodinger_Cat and well they can always go to other european leagues. It is doubtful if there is in fact any impact due to the large number of non english players in the premierships
[21:42] * Soxred93 (n=Soxred93@unaffiliated/soxred93) has joined #wikipedia
[21:43] * Soxred93 (n=Soxred93@unaffiliated/soxred93) Quit (Remote closed the connection )
[21:43] * Soxred93 (n=Soxred93@unaffiliated/soxred93) has joined #wikipedia
[21:44] * Cestmoi (n=cestmoi@wikia/cest-moi) has joined #wikipedia
[21:44] * KrimpBotII (i=krimpet@unaffiliated/krimpet/bot/krimpbot) Quit (Remote closed the connection )
[21:47] <StayTuned> thanks Krimpet
[21:47] <StayTuned> seriously
[21:52] <Krimpet> no problem :)
[21:52] * outwin is now known as niwhsiv
[21:53] * niwhsiv is now known as air_conditioner
[21:53] * IceKarma (i=ankh@wikipedia/IceKarma) has joined #wikipedia
[21:54] * grobda24 (n=usenet_h@silentflame/member/grobda24) Quit
[21:54] * jeremywc (n=jeremywc@r74-193-9-23.cnrocmta01.conrtx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) Quit ("Leaving" )
[21:54] * Nietzsche_Cat (n=chatzill@CPE-76-84-12-144.neb.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia
[21:55] * Netsniper (n=se@adsl-68-73-150-168.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net) has joined #wikipedia
[21:55] * kylu (n=kylu@wikimedia/Kylu) has joined #wikipedia
[21:55] * R_enwiki|away is now known as Not_the_NSA
[21:55] * geniice_ (n=chatzill@88-105-41-165.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #wikipedia
[21:56] * tawker2 (n=tawker@wikipedia/Tawker) has joined #wikipedia
[21:56] Clones detected from wikipedia/Tawker: 8 tawker tawker2
[21:56] * me1 (n=me1@unaffiliated/me1) Quit ("sleep" )
[21:57] * tawker (n=tawker@wikipedia/Tawker) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[21:57] * tawker2 is now known as tawker
[21:59] * gwern (i=gwern@gateway/tor/x-66c0f261eac33cf3) has joined #wikipedia
[21:59] * tawker (n=tawker@wikipedia/Tawker) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[21:59] * tawker2 (n=tawker@wikipedia/Tawker) has joined #wikipedia
[21:59] * tawker2 is now known as tawker
[22:01] * H_A_G_G_E_R (n=no@200.51.41.29) has joined #Wikipedia
[22:02] * ChanServ sets mode: +o WaRpAtH
[22:02] * ChanServ sets mode: +o FastLizard4
[22:02] * WaRpAtH sets mode: +b *!*n=no@200.51.41.29
[22:02] * FastLizard4 sets mode: +b *!*@200.51.41.29
[22:02] * H_A_G_G_E_R was kicked by FastLizard4 (bai )
er Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[22:01] * Set by MZMcBride on Wed Jun 11 02:01:55
[22:01] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[22:02] * ChanServ sets mode: +o WaRpAtH
[22:02] * ChanServ sets mode: +o FastLizard4
[22:02] * WaRpAtH sets mode: +b *!*n=no@200.51.41.29
[22:02] * FastLizard4 sets mode: +b *!*@200.51.41.29
[22:02] * You were kicked by FastLizard4 (bai )
[22:02] * Attempting to rejoin channel #wikipedia
Session Close: Wed Jun 11 22:02:19 2008
[22:02] * FastLizard4 sets mode: -o FastLizard4
[22:02] * WaRpAtH sets mode: -o WaRpAtH
[22:02] <FastLizard4> :O
[22:02] <WaRpAtH> ;)
[22:02] <The359> not very original
[22:02] * FastLizard4 notes that WaRpAtH's ban fails
[22:02] <WaRpAtH> >:(
[22:03] * ChanServ sets mode: +o FastLizard4
[22:03] * FastLizard4 sets mode: -b *!*n=no@200.51.41.29
[22:03] * FastLizard4 sets mode: -o FastLizard4
[22:04] <WaRpAtH> >:(
[22:04] * Retrieving #Wikipedia modes...
[22:04] * senes (i=senes@server1.bshellz.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection )
[22:05] <kylu> comet: try h*a*g*g*e*r!*@*
[22:05] <WaRpAtH> try autorem :P
[22:05] <kylu> don't you have to specify a mask of some sort for autorem?
[22:05] <Luna-San> I forget, does a * also match 0 characters in this situation?
[22:05] <FastLizard4> Luna-San: yes
[22:06] <Luna-San> Danke
[22:06] * pmsyyz (n=pms@c-75-70-221-164.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit
[22:06] * Rootology (n=Rootolog@unaffiliated/rootology) has joined #wikipedia
[22:06] <FastLizard4> * matches 0 to infinite characters
[22:06] <FastLizard4> ? matches 0 or 1 characters
[22:07] * tgies_ (n=tgies@ip72-196-21-90.om.om.cox.net) has joined #wikipedia
[22:07] * Mike5 (n=mgigante@92.2.215.193) Quit
[22:08] * tgies (n=tgies@ip72-196-21-90.om.om.cox.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[22:08] <WaRpAtH> ho Rootology :D
[22:08] <WaRpAtH> hi*
[22:08] <Messedrocker> hi rootology!
[22:09] * Messedrocker has no idea who rootology is but the name is familiar
[22:09] <WaRpAtH> famous banned troll :)
[22:09] * Pilotguy_ is now known as Pilotguy
[22:09] <WaRpAtH> now unbanned :)
[22:10] * WaRpAtH hugs Rootology :)
[22:10] <Messedrocker> ah right
[22:10] <Messedrocker> the first person to be permab& by arbcom, yes?
[22:10] <Rootology> who, me? :)
[22:10] <Messedrocker> yes
[22:10] <WaRpAtH> :D
[22:11] <Loooooooong_Cat> Hey Rootology
[22:11] <Loooooooong_Cat> :D
[22:11] <Loooooooong_Cat> <== former troll
[22:11] <rory|zzz> lol
[22:11] <Nietzsche_Cat> <== dead
[22:11] <Rootology> I am now just a purveyor of fine references and photos
[22:11] <rory|zzz> whoa, you were unbanned?
[22:11] <rory|zzz> congrats
[22:11] * Rdsmith4 (n=Rdsmith4@wikipedia/Rdsmith4) has joined #wikipedia
[22:12] * __aib (n=__aib@c-67-172-156-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit ("Leaving" )
[22:12] <Rootology> thanks
[22:14] * Melos-away (n=Melos@wikimedia/Melos) Quit (Connection reset by peer )
[22:15] * Tesla (n=chatzill@adsl-75-9-141-213.dsl.elpstx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[22:16] <tawker> hey is facebook down for you folks
[22:17] <wimt> Seems to be up here
[22:17] <Nietzsche_Cat> sa,e
[22:17] <Luna-San> Frontpage loads for me, can't confirm anything beyond that
[22:17] <Nietzsche_Cat> *same
[22:17] <rory|zzz> {{worksforme}}
[22:17] <Loooooooong_Cat> tawker, yup
[22:17] <Loooooooong_Cat> it is
[22:17] <rory|zzz> tawker: you can use that website whose name i forgot for such things in the future
[22:17] <rory|zzz> it's like www.isitdownforeveryoneorjustme.com or something
[22:17] <rory|zzz> it's like www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com or something
[22:17] <rory|zzz> er
[22:18] <rory|zzz> that
[22:18] <tawker> lol
[22:18] <rory|zzz> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/facebook.com
[22:18] * Tesla (n=chatzill@adsl-75-9-141-213.dsl.elpstx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #wikipedia
[22:18] <Rootology> facebook is down? guess its time for more capital
[22:18] <rory|zzz> Rootology: heh
[22:18] <Luna-San> Huh. I guess a site like that might be able to get a decent guess, just based on how many people are asking if it's down.
[22:18] <Luna-San> And where those people are from.
[22:19] <rory|zzz> Luna-San: i think it actually checks itself
[22:19] <rory|zzz> or something
[22:19] * geniice (n=chatzill@wikipedia/geniice) Quit (Connection timed out )
[22:19] <Luna-San> Also a good idea. But bad if it's only down for them. :3
[22:19] <Schrodinger_Cat> rory|zzz: But what if www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com is only down for me? :P
[22:19] <Luna-San> Schrodinger_Cat: Then it's time to cry
[22:19] <rory|zzz> Luna-San: multiple servers in different places, maybe?
[22:19] <Luna-San> rory|zzz: Could be, would help
[22:19] <Messedrocker> Luna-San, that or it goes to the site itself and checks for a 200 statement or a 40x statement
[22:19] <rory|zzz> Schrodinger_Cat: what Luna-San said
[22:19] <Schrodinger_Cat> Luna-San: ;_;
[22:19] <Luna-San> Aww
[22:21] <Schrodinger_Cat> Huh, that site isn't even close to accurate, though.  "It's not just you! amazon.com looks down from here." <-- Other than that 1-hour period the other day, Amazon.com is solid like a freaking diamond plated Rock of Gibraltar
Session Close: Wed Jun 11 22:21:30 2008

Sunday, June 14.

 Session Start: Sun Jun 15 11:38:45 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[11:38] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[11:38] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[11:38] * Set by MZMcBride on Wed Jun 11 02:01:55
[11:38] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[11:41] * ViciousGu (n=vikkgu@adsl-75-6-208-121.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #wikipedia
[11:41] <ViciousGu> Hello - I'm having trouble figuring out who speedied the article
[11:42] <tombom> there's no entry in the deletion log
[11:43] <ViciousGu> Well, I have no idea who did it
[11:43] <ViciousGu> I need someone to tell
[11:43] * lulz is now known as Cream
[11:43] <ViciousGu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Undelete/Bobby_Jack_Brand
[11:43] <ViciousGu> I very much opposed the speedy tag
[11:43] * sithong (n=sithong@202.144.184.142) Quit
[11:43] <ViciousGu> And I need to immediately restore it if there is noone to tell that the speedy was not appropriate
[11:43] <ViciousGu> The article clearly claimed notability
[11:44] <ViciousGu> And I would like to notify the deleter and wait 48 hours before restoring (unless he has an objection)
[11:44] <ViciousGu> But if there is noone to tell, and the speedy is very much so inappropriate, then what do I do?
[11:44] * Aeternus (n=Massimil@wikimedia/massimiliano-lincetto) Quit ("«Goodbye cruel world. I'm leaving you today. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye...»" )
[11:45] <ViciousGu> Restore it immediately and request an AFD if there is opposition?
[11:46] * Kerotan (n=chatzill@wikipedia/Kerotan) Quit ("bye" )
[11:46] <Cream> ViciousGu, bring it up to WP:AN
[11:46] <ViciousGu> Okay
[11:47] * szczepan (n=szczepan@wikipedia/Szczepan1990) has joined #wikipedia
[11:47] <Cream> then try to explain why
[11:47] <Cream> and wait for replies
[11:48] <Lucifer_Cat> s:cream
[11:48] * soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Client Quit )
[11:48] * Cream snuggles Lucifer_Cat
[11:48] <Lucifer_Cat> :)  mornin
[11:49] <Cream> you too dear :)
[11:50] <Lucifer_Cat> stop  beingg gay
[11:50] <Cream> lol
[11:52] * Dendodge (n=Dendodge@cpc3-grim9-0-0-cust90.nott.cable.ntl.com) has joined #wikipedia
[11:53] * Mor_Cat (n=chatzill@189.162.18.70) has joined #wikipedia
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[11:56] * faroframkallaway is now known as Sceptre
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[11:59] * yao_ziyua1 (n=yaoziyua@222.188.136.153) has left #wikipedia
[12:01] * Lisa-Chan (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[12:03] * lajla (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #wikipedia
[12:03] Clones detected from 213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl: 8 lajla niarch
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[12:08] Clones detected from 213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl: 8 lajla niarch naxhnalhia
[12:10] * jimius (i=jimius@j113235.upc-j.chello.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[12:10] * Hadija (i=clarice@ip204.cab7.lsn.starman.ee) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[12:11] * Cobra| (n=aa@Ue950.u.pppool.de) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[12:15] * NastyAccident (n=JB-DevBo@unaffiliated/nastyaccident) Quit ("Leaving" )
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[12:18] * Flo_1 (n=Flo_1@c-180-36-51.h.dial.de.ignite.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[12:19] * Gazimoff (i=Gazimoff@93-96-224-131.zone4.bethere.co.uk) has joined #wikipedia
[12:19] * niarch (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit (Connection timed out )
[12:20] * Tesfan (n=chatzill@CPE-76-84-12-144.neb.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia
[12:21] * Hadija (i=clarice@ip204.cab7.lsn.starman.ee) has joined #wikipedia
[12:23] <noclip> yay
[12:23] <noclip> i have cleansed my music library of any non-lossless music
[12:25] * Soxred93 (n=Soxred93@unaffiliated/soxred93) Quit ("XChat ftw" )
[12:25] * lajla (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit (Connection timed out )
[12:25] * Lucifer_Cat purges noclip
[12:26] * Az1568 (n=1568@wikimedia/Az1568) has joined #Wikipedia
[12:26] <noclip> ha
[12:26] <gwern> man, chinese legalism is one hardcore political philosophy
[12:27] <gwern> '                                                                             Farmers
[12:27] <gwern> open up the soil, merchants import products, officials rule the people. These three
[12:27] <gwern> functions give rise to parasites, six in number, which are called : care for old age,
[12:27] <gwern> living on others, beauty, love, ambition and virtuous conduct. If these six parasites
[12:27] <gwern> find an attachment, there will be dismemberment
[12:27] <gwern> If the six parasites become a pervading custom, the army will certainly suffer  great
[12:27] * noclip arrests and kills gwern for dissent
[12:27] <gwern> defeats.
[12:28] <noclip> gwern: they told you they were hardcore
[12:29] <gwern> I wasn't expecting the Chinese Inquisition to go to 11!
[12:29] <Lucifer_Cat> soo... if the army has good conduct... they will lose?
[12:29] * naxhnalhia (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit (Connection timed out )
[12:30] <gwern> I guess the opposite of virtuous would be vicious
[12:30] <gwern> at least, it is in aristotelian ethics
[12:30] <Lucifer_Cat> viscous
[12:30] * Gunirus (n=Gunirus@unaffiliated/Gunirus) Quit ("Lost terminal" )
[12:30] <Lucifer_Cat> just like something white that i saw a while back
[12:31] * Brynn (n=Brynn@unaffiliated/brynn) has left #wikipedia
[12:34] <gwern> "I'm afraid, sir, your public image is as something of an ogre." "Why, I ought to club them and boil their bones!"
[12:34] <Cream> yay
[12:34] <Cream> firefox 3 in 3 days :D
[12:35] <gwern> and then wine 1.0 2 or 3 days betides, iirc
[12:35] <gwern> *betimes
[12:35] * geniice (n=chatzill@wikipedia/geniice) has joined #wikipedia
[12:37] * TMN (n=TMN@bas1-toronto09-1279621812.dsl.bell.ca) Quit
[12:40] * Aqwis2 (i=Aqwis@214.85-200-143.bkkb.no) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[12:49] * Pasiipa (n=5b993455@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/x-a1e8a851457d2168) has joined #wikipedia
[12:49] <Pasiipa> hello
[12:49] <geniice> good afternoon
[12:50] <Lucifer_Cat> I didn't believe she was devil's sperm.
[12:50] <Lucifer_Cat> She said, "Curse you all, you'll never learn!
[12:50] <Lucifer_Cat> When I leave there's no return."
[12:50] <Lucifer_Cat> The people laughed till she said, "Gwern!"
[12:51] <Lucifer_Cat> gwern: like it?
[12:52] * niarch (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #wikipedia
[12:53] <gwern> mm. I would've made the last rhyme 'G'warn', as in the colloquial 'Go on'/'leave now'
[12:53] <gwern> also, that limerick makes no sense
[12:54] * Pasiipa (n=5b993455@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/x-a1e8a851457d2168) Quit ("CGI:IRC" )
[12:54] * Riffage (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #wikipedia
[12:56] <Lucifer_Cat> heretic
[12:56] <Lucifer_Cat> http://www.lyrics007.com/Deep%20Purple%20Lyrics/Burn%20Lyrics.html
[12:56] <Lucifer_Cat> originally it was "Burn!"
[12:56] * |Ziron| (n=Z@d121-183-137.home3.cgocable.net) has joined #wikipedia
[12:56] * Ziron (n=Z@unaffiliated/ziron) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[12:56] * |Ziron| is now known as Ziron
[12:57] * Leonard^Bloom (n=chatzill@c-24-20-81-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #wikipedia
[12:58] * BCMM (n=bcmm@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #wikipedia
[12:58] * BCMM (n=bcmm@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) )
[12:59] * Snoring|Angry (n=Snoring@116.71.39.204) has joined #wikipedia
[12:59] * Leonard^Bloom (n=chatzill@c-24-20-81-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has left #wikipedia
[12:59] <Snoring|Angry> meow
[13:00] <gwern> BARGLE
[13:00] * Flo_1 (n=Flo_1@Nfc90.n.pppool.de) has joined #wikipedia
[13:00] * yao_ziyua1 (n=yaoziyua@222.188.136.153) has joined #wikipedia
[13:00] <Snoring|Angry> Hello gwern / browny
[13:01] * Legoktm (n=Legoktm@adsl-216-103-85-154.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #wikipedia
[13:01] * Lucifer_Cat wops Snoring|Angry
[13:01] * Snoring|Angry is now known as Snoring|Depresse
[13:03] <gwern> get thee to mah bellery!
[13:04] <Snoring|Depresse> :(
[13:04] * jbalint (i=jbalint@unaffiliated/jbalint) has joined #wikipedia
[13:05] <Snoring|Depresse> I hate my life.
[13:05] <jbalint> hi, there is something broken here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland%2C_Maine near the bottom on Honors section
[13:05] <gwern> Snoring|Depresse: then be an hero?
[13:05] <jbalint> can somebody fix it?i dont know what the problem is
[13:05] <Snoring|Depresse> gwern: Hero ?
[13:06] <gwern> jbalint: the honors section?
[13:06] <Snoring|Depresse> Its gone
[13:06] <Snoring|Depresse> Life is pathetic.
[13:06] <jbalint> gwern: yes, do you see where it says "Ranked #6 on..."
[13:06] <jbalint> right about External Links is Honors
[13:06] <jbalint> *above
[13:07] * Flo_1 (n=Flo_1@Nfc90.n.pppool.de) Quit ("Bewerte mich! --> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Flo_1/Bewertung" )
[13:07] <Lucifer_Cat> Snoring|Depresse: what happened
[13:07] * MessedRocker (n=messedro@wikipedia/MessedRocker) has joined #wikipedia
[13:07] * Legoktm (n=Legoktm@adsl-216-103-85-154.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.9/2008031312]" )
[13:07] <gwern> looks fine to me
[13:07] <jbalint> what do you see below Ranked #6?
[13:08] <gwern> hm, wait, that's weird
[13:08] <Snoring|Depresse> Lucifer_Cat: I tried to kill myself 4 times today nop
[13:08] <Snoring|Depresse> :(
[13:08] <Snoring|Depresse> What the hell is a family.
[13:08] * lajla (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #wikipedia
[13:08] Clones detected from 213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl: 8 lajla niarch
[13:08] <Lucifer_Cat> jeez, be done with it. or suck it up.
[13:08] <Lucifer_Cat> Snoring|Depresse: in what context
[13:08] <Snoring|Depresse> In reality
[13:09] * ViciousGu (n=vikkgu@adsl-75-6-208-121.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) Quit
[13:09] <Lucifer_Cat> typically, mom, dad and kids. your siblings and their family is your family too.
[13:10] <Snoring|Depresse> Got none
[13:11] <gwern> an unclosed ref, figures
[13:11] <Snoring|Depresse> Oh well
[13:11] * Snoring|Depresse is now known as Pissed-away
[13:11] <jbalint> what is unclosed
[13:12] <jbalint> which line?
[13:12] * Lucifer_Cat hugs snor
[13:12] <Lucifer_Cat> grr
[13:12] <Lucifer_Cat> he left?
[13:12] <Lycurgus> no, of course not
[13:12] <Lucifer_Cat> oh Pissed-away
[13:12] <Lucifer_Cat> Lycurgus
[13:15] <gwern> aha, found the revision that broke the refs
[13:16] <Lycurgus> at some point the base package will refuse to save text with unbalanced tags
[13:16] * Pissed-away (n=Snoring@116.71.39.204) Quit
[13:17] <Lycurgus> toldja
[13:18] <gwern> I knew what the problem was, I was just having trouble finding the original reference
[13:18] <gwern> macmillan truncated the bloody thing in half
[13:19] * naxhnalhia (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #wikipedia
[13:19] Clones detected from 213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl: 8 lajla niarch naxhnalhia
[13:19] <jbalint> thanks gwern!
[13:20] * Mallabus (n=n@62-31-12-138.cable.ubr06.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #wikipedia
[13:20] <gwern> oh well. it's fixed and I've left a mesg
[13:20] * jbalint (i=jbalint@unaffiliated/jbalint) has left #wikipedia
[13:22] * Lubaf (n=chatzill@c-67-188-191-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #wikipedia
[13:23] * niarch (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit (Connection timed out )
[13:24] <Lubaf> BEWARE! I LIVE!
[13:24] <Lubaf> I HUNGER!
[13:25] * sarefo_home (n=sarefo@dslb-092-073-090-150.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[13:25] * sarefo_home (n=sarefo@dslb-092-073-090-176.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #wikipedia
[13:26] * Yamakiri_failed (n=chatzill@ip70-186-217-199.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #wikipedia
[13:26] * Yamakiri_failed is now known as Yamakiri
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[13:30] * killcops (n=huh@pool-96-244-24-50.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) has joined #wikipedia
[13:32] * MessedRocker (n=messedro@wikipedia/MessedRocker) Quit ("Leaving" )
[13:33] * lajla (n=niarch@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
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[13:39] * gwern (i=gwern@wikipedia/Gwern) Quit (Remote closed the connection )
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[13:45] * Melos is now known as Melos-away
[13:49] * tusho (n=tusho@91.105.107.28) Quit ("got better things to do" )
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[13:56] * Yerul (n=Vlad@wikipedia/Yerul) Quit ("It's a trap!" )
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[13:57] * kcops (n=huh@pool-71-166-114-48.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) has joined #wikipedia
[13:57] <kcops> is this the channel for the gnaa ?
[13:58] * Pilotguy (n=ThetaXi@wikinews/pilotguy) Quit ("I'm off to see the wizard." )
[13:58] <Jmax> yes kcops
[13:58] <kcops> someone said to come here
[13:58] <kcops> oh cool
[13:58] <Jmax> yep
[13:58] * gwern (i=gwern@wikipedia/Gwern) has joined #wikipedia
[13:58] <kcops> the gay (black person)  association for america ?
[13:59] <Yamakiri> Should I ping the ops?
[13:59] <kcops> whats that
[13:59] <kcops> it doesnt soudn nice
[13:59] <Jmax> alert, someone said gay
[14:00] <Yamakiri> kcops: state your intentions
[14:00] <Jmax> name, rank, and intentions, sir
[14:01] <Yamakiri> There aren't ranks here!  (Admin is a privilege not rank)
[14:01] <Fabexplosive> what happens?
[14:02] <Yamakiri> Fabexplosive: About?
[14:02] <Fabexplosive> nothing..., "ops" command alert me :)
[14:02] * Trugster (n=chatzill@host86-143-154-235.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) has joined #wikipedia
[14:02] <Yamakiri> really?
[14:03] <Yamakiri> You actually got pinged?
[14:03] <Fabexplosive> bcause i'm op here :)
[14:03] <Fabexplosive> yup
[14:03] <Yamakiri> i thought you had to use an ! mark before the o - p - s command
[14:04] <Fabexplosive> not only !
[14:04] <Fabexplosive> ;)
[14:04] <Yamakiri> wow that seems like a defect
[14:04] <Fabexplosive> newbies don't remember ! on this
[14:04] * Fabexplosive away
[14:05] <Yamakiri> I vote to ban kcops for incivility
[14:05] <Yamakiri> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YRwBh93yxGM
[14:06] * killcops (n=huh@pool-96-244-24-50.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) Quit (Connection timed out )
[14:06] * BlackHole (n=BlackHol@ip51cfe57c.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #wikipedia
Session Close: Sun Jun 15 14:07:09 2008

Session Start: Sun Jun 15 14:07:09 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[14:07] * Disconnected
Session Close: Sun Jun 15 14:07:10 2008

Session Start: Sun Jun 15 20:30:32 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[20:30] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[20:30] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[20:30] * Set by MZMcBride on Wed Jun 11 02:01:55
[20:30] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[20:30] * niarch is now known as lajlia
[20:30] * lajlia is now known as lajla
[20:30] * Not_the_NSA (n=R@wikipedia/R) Quit ("<Imagine this is one of those weird phrases or quotes animum usually uses>" )
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[20:31] * FastLizard4 (n=FastLiza@wikipedia/FastLizard4) has joined #wikipedia
[20:31] * Messedrocker (n=messedro@wikipedia/MessedRocker) has joined #wikipedia
[20:31] <Messedrocker> i am finished with my program, for now!
[20:31] <Messedrocker> who here uses windows
[20:32] <Yamakiri> I do!
[20:32] <Yamakiri> XP
[20:33] <Yamakiri> what does your programme do?
[20:33] * Nihiltres_ (n=nihiltre@wikipedia/Nihiltres) has joined #wikipedia
[20:33] * lulz is now known as Cream
[20:34] <Messedrocker> it's a notebook
[20:34] <Messedrocker> with sections and pages
[20:34] * FastLizard4 raises hand
[20:34] * FastLizard4 uses Windows - not by choice
[20:34] * FastLizard4 SIGKILLs Firefox
Session Close: Sun Jun 15 20:35:06 2008

Session Start: Sun Jun 15 20:35:06 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[20:35] * Disconnected
Session Close: Sun Jun 15 20:35:10 2008

Session Start: Sun Jun 15 20:35:28 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[20:35] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[20:35] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[20:35] * Set by MZMcBride on Wed Jun 11 02:01:55
[20:35] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[20:35] * Yamakiri just got DoubleAW 's joke
[20:36] * Cream (i=wat@unaffiliated/cream) Quit (Nick collision from services. )
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[20:50] Clones detected from wikipedia/R: 8 Not_the_NSA R_enwiki
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[20:53] <Geoff_Plourde> Anyone here have access to American Revolution books?
[20:54] <Rinn> No, but I could kiss you if you like!
[20:54] * dungodung|sleep (n=felix@wikipedia/dungodung) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[20:55] <Yamakiri> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_rain_in_Kerala#Chemical_composition
[20:55] <Yamakiri> The graph = 61.94 % total
[20:55] <Yamakiri> Where's the other 35.06%
[20:56] <Yamakiri> ?
[20:56] <Yamakiri> (1st graph that's horizontal)
[20:57] * Energy_Cat (i=BoL@unaffiliated/bol) Quit ("wow, took 11 minutes! wow! but still, spring break! w00t!" )
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[21:19] <Species8472> why doesnt [[Category:Linux based devices|blabla]] work?
[21:20] <Mark_Ryan> are you trying to link to the category? if so, put a tilde at the beginning, before the capital 'C'
[21:20] <Mark_Ryan> sorry, i mean, a colon
[21:20] <Mark_Ryan> [[:Category:Whatever]]
[21:20] * soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Client Quit )
[21:20] <Species8472> ok
[21:20] <Mark_Ryan> otherwise it will just include whatever page you're on in the category
[21:21] * SJP (n=chatzill@c-24-63-69-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #wikipedia
[21:21] <Species8472> thanks Mark_Ryan
[21:21] <Mark_Ryan> no problemo
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[21:27] <FastLizard4> oh dear
[21:27] * FastLizard4 thinks there might netsplit
[21:27] <FastLizard4> rather
[21:27] * FastLizard4 thinks a netsplit may have just occured
[21:27] <Cream> no duh
[21:27] <Cream> :)
[21:28] <FastLizard4> Again, that is just an assumption
[21:29] <Cream> [21:26] * daybreaker (n=daybreak@c213-100-41-254.swipnet.se) Quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[21:29] <Cream> [21:26] * Crimedog (i=ritzlart@wikipedia/Ron-Ritzman) Quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[21:29] <Cream> [21:26] * wimt (i=wimt@wikipedia/pdpc.student.wimt) Quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[21:29] <Cream> [21:26] * HardDisk_WP (n=Marco@wikipedia/harddisk) Quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[21:29] <Cream> [21:26] * Danny_B (n=Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.) Quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
Session Close: Sun Jun 15 21:29:29 2008

Session Start: Sun Jun 15 21:29:29 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[21:29] * Disconnected
Session Close: Sun Jun 15 21:29:33 2008

Session Start: Sun Jun 15 21:29:52 2008
Session Ident: #Wikipedia
[21:29] * Now talking in #Wikipedia
[21:29] * Topic is 'Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Status: Up | Guidelines: http://tinyurl.com/34mdzm | Maintain civility and respect for other Wikipedians at all times | No public logging '
[21:29] * Set by MZMcBride on Wed Jun 11 02:01:55
[21:29] #wikipedia url is http://wikipedia.org
[21:29] <Mark_Ryan> http://ganglia.wikimedia.org/ -- you can usually look at the graphs here to see if there's a problem with the site. because they get all broken up
[21:30] <Bernstein229> still didn't work
[21:30] * chrislk02 (n=chatzill@ip98-166-56-88.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #wikipedia
[21:30] <Bernstein229> I emtied cache
[21:30] <Yamakiri> If nothing works, restart
[21:30] <Yamakiri> Restarting - The magical solution
[21:30] * Mm40 (n=chatzill@96.242.123.103) Quit (Nick collision from services. )
[21:30] <Yamakiri> Except with viruses
[21:30] * Cyrius (n=t-bone@cpe-66-25-251-172.gt.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia
[21:30] <Mark_Ryan> i'm not sure if that works for Macs as well as it does for Windows, Yamakiri. heh
[21:30] <Yamakiri> No?
[21:30] <Bernstein229> not sure if it will work
[21:31] <Mark_Ryan> "have you tried turning it off and on again?"
[21:31] * lulz is now known as Cream
[21:31] <Bernstein229> ehh
[21:31] <Cyrius> jiggle the cord!
[21:31] <Bernstein229> I don't want to restart
[21:31] * JT (n=j@unaffiliated/jt) has joined #wikipedia
[21:31] <Cyrius> what's the problem?
[21:31] <Yamakiri> Mark_Ryan's solution == restart
[21:31] <Mark_Ryan> Bernstein229: http://raxso.net/2008/05/how-to-ping-in-mac/
[21:31] <Mark_Ryan> Yamakiri: I was quoting a TV show :)
[21:31] * Yamakiri is lame
[21:31] <Mark_Ryan> Bernstein229: follow that link and the directions it gives, and ping en.wikipedia.org
[21:32] <Bernstein229> ok
[21:33] * Cream is now known as Looooooooong_Cat
[21:33] * LizardSock (n=FastLiza@wikipedia/FastLizard4) has joined #wikipedia
[21:33] * Nihiltres is now known as shrt_ct
[21:33] <Bernstein229> I tryed pinging
[21:34] <Bernstein229> and it still won't get page
[21:34] * Simon- (i=simon@85.158.45.36) has joined #wikipedia
[21:34] * FastLizard4 (n=FastLiza@wikipedia/FastLizard4) has joined #wikipedia
[21:34] Clones detected from wikipedia/FastLizard4: 8 FastLizard4 LizardSock
[21:34] * Cream (i=wat@unaffiliated/cream) has joined #wikipedia
[21:34] Clones detected from unaffiliated/cream: 8 Cream Looooooooong_Cat
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[21:34] * Hadija (i=clarice@ip204.cab7.lsn.starman.ee) has joined #wikipedia
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[21:34] * deelkar|afk (n=deelkar@dslc-082-082-180-200.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #wikipedia
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[21:34] * InfiniteI (n=none@12-208-46-68.client.mchsi.com) has joined #wikipedia
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[21:34] * melonhead (n=melonhea@c-98-226-78-3.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #wikipedia
[21:34] * Bungle (n=bungle@82-42-123-105.cable.ubr07.live.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #wikipedia
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[21:34] * shrt_ct is now known as Nihiltres
[21:34] <Mark_Ryan> what were the results it gave when you pinged, though?
[21:34] <Yamakiri> If you're so against restart, could you use a proxy
[21:34] <Yamakiri> ?
[21:34] <Bernstein229> well
[21:34] <Bernstein229> let me see
[21:34] <Yamakiri> http://proxify.com
[21:34] <Bernstein229> this is what came out after I pinged
[21:34] <Bernstein229> Ping has started ...
[21:34] <Bernstein229> PING rr.pmtpa.wikimedia.org (208.80.152.2): 56 data bytes
[21:34] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=52 time=64.880 ms
[21:34] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=52 time=64.922 ms
[21:34] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=52 time=64.847 ms
[21:34] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=52 time=64.922 ms
[21:34] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=52 time=65.106 ms
[21:35] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=5 ttl=52 time=65.162 ms
[21:35] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=6 ttl=52 time=96.433 ms
[21:35] <LizardSock> Bernstein229: stop
[21:35] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=7 ttl=52 time=65.313 ms
[21:35] <Yamakiri> NOoooooooooooooooooooooooo
[21:35] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=8 ttl=52 time=65.298 ms
[21:35] <Bernstein229> 64 bytes from 208.80.152.2: icmp_seq=9 ttl=52 time=65.292 ms
[21:35] <Bernstein229> --- rr.pmtpa.wikimedia.org ping statistics ---
[21:35] * ChanServ sets mode: +o LizardSock
[21:35] * LizardSock sets mode: +b %Bernstein229!*@*
[21:35] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Golbez
[21:35] <Yamakiri> Use a pastebin
[21:35] * LizardSock sets mode: -o LizardSock
[21:35] <Geoff_Plourde> oh?
[21:35] * Golbez sets mode: -o Golbez
[21:35] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Golbez
[21:35] * Golbez sets mode: -b %Bernstein229!*@*
[21:35] * Az1568 (n=1568@wikimedia/Az1568) has joined #Wikipedia
[21:35] <Yamakiri> http://www.pastebin.com
[21:35] <Golbez> i think his flood stopped
[21:35] * Golbez sets mode: -o Golbez
[21:35] <Mark_Ryan> Bernstein229, the fact that you're getting the pings actually successfully bouncing back at you means that it's probably your browser that's screwed
[21:35] <Mark_Ryan> and you'd probably have to restart to fix that
[21:35] <Yamakiri> ah yes, the flood channel with errors
[21:36] <Bernstein229> well
[21:36] <Bernstein229> other websites work
[21:36] <Mark_Ryan> unless you have another browser
[21:36] <Yamakiri> makes me remember when I was a newbie
[21:36] <Mark_Ryan> do you have firefox or safari (whichever you're not using right now)?
[21:36] <Bernstein229> I am using safari
[21:36] <Bernstein229> I will try firefox
[21:36] <FastLizard4> hehe
[21:36] <FastLizard4> I was on the splitting server, so I sent LizardSock in to see what you people were up to
[21:37] * Mark_Ryan always finds Macs so difficult
[21:37] <Yamakiri> I hate how you can't stop a huge past action
[21:37] <Yamakiri> The first time I came here with an error and pasted I did the same thing
[21:37] <Bernstein229> ok
[21:37] <Gracenotes> guys, I heard on the internets that weather was like rape
[21:37] <Gracenotes> is this true, internets?
[21:37] <Bernstein229> its my browser
[21:37] * LizardSock (n=FastLiza@wikipedia/FastLizard4) Quit ("...To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before!" )
[21:37] <Bernstein229> let me quit safari
[21:37] <Bernstein229> then restart it
[21:37] <Mark_Ryan> Bernstein229: yeah maybe that will help :)
[21:38] * tarawneh_ (n=chatzill@wikimedia/Tarawneh) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]" )
[21:38] <Mark_Ryan> Gracenotes: you are my sunshine, my only sunshine
[21:38] <Bernstein229> nope
[21:38] <Bernstein229> still get it
[21:38] <Bernstein229> let me do something else
[21:38] <Mark_Ryan> Bernstein229, that's quite unusual :-\ but I don't know how to help you from there on. maybe you could ask in #wikimedia-tech
[21:38] * Yamakiri thinks MarkR's hittin' on Gracenotes
[21:39] <Monobi> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metapub#Global_sysops_.28poll.29
[21:39] <Gracenotes> Yamakiri: and...?
[21:39] * FastLizard4 CAN HAZ MOAR NETSPLIT?
[21:39] <Mark_Ryan> don't we already have global sysops? they're called stewards
[21:39] * GerardM- (n=chatzill@host250-28-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Connection timed out )
[21:39] <Monobi> Mark_Ryan, I don't know... I'm just informing you of a poll
[21:39] <Yamakiri> And nothing, just stating the obvious
[21:40] * yao_ziyuan (n=yaoziyua@222.188.135.156) has left #wikipedia
[21:40] <Mark_Ryan> Yamakiri: Gracenotes and I share a very sensual relationship. There's 'hitting on' about it
[21:40] <Yamakiri> and?
[21:40] <Gracenotes> um. what he said. :>
[21:40] <Mark_Ryan> Yamakiri: and it's gooood
[21:41] * Yamakiri was sarcastic
[21:41] <Mark_Ryan> I can't believe this channel is being talked in
[21:41] <Mark_Ryan> haven't you all heard that #wikipedia-en is the new hangout for the cool kids?
[21:41] * Mm40_ (n=chatzill@96.242.123.103) Quit (Connection timed out )
[21:41] <Yamakiri> What'da ya mean?
[21:41] <FastLizard4> Mark_Ryan: no
[21:41] * Yamakiri jumps into the portal
[21:41] <FastLizard4> #wikipedia-social is better
[21:42] * Yamakiri jumps into the other one
[21:42] <Mark_Ryan> but I'm not the evil overlord of #wikipedia-social, so it's not as fun
[21:42] <Mark_Ryan> because I'm fun to be with
[21:42] <FastLizard4> Mark_Ryan: I am one of the evil overlords of both social channels :P
[21:42] <FastLizard4> Yamakiri: No, <name of auto-K-Line channel redacted> is better :P
[21:43] * Yamakiri drags Mark, Grace, and Lizard with him
[21:43] <Gracenotes> but, is Mark_Ryan a plastic pal who's fun to be with?
[21:43] <Mark_Ryan> LOL!
[21:43] * Mark_Ryan stares at FastLizard4
[21:43] * FastLizard4 stares at Mark_Ryan
[21:43] <Mark_Ryan> 9:43:02 am >> <FastLizard4> Yamakiri: No, <name of auto-K-Line channel redacted> is better :P
[21:43] * Mm40__ (n=chatzill@96.242.123.103) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[21:43] <Mark_Ryan> wtf
[21:43] <Yamakiri> IDK either
[21:43] <Mark_Ryan> does it automatically redact them now? haha cool
[21:43] <FastLizard4> Mark_Ryan: No
[21:43] <Gracenotes> /mode +if <auto-K-line>
[21:44] <Mark_Ryan> awwwwww
[21:44] <Yamakiri> there's like no-one in there
[21:44] <FastLizard4> Gracenotes: heh
[21:44] * Rinn (n=invalide@h237.147.30.69.ip.alltel.net) Quit ("To remove the curse, you must hop across this wire on one leg while singing." )
[21:44] <FastLizard4> Mark_Ryan: I just redacted it because I didn't want to get Yamakiri K-Lined
[21:44] <Mark_Ryan> does it actually automatically k-line people any more?
[21:44] <FastLizard4> Mark_Ryan: Yup
[21:44] <Yamakiri> K-Lined means...?
[21:44] <cimon> btw, happy Bloomsday, everybody...
[21:44] <FastLizard4> Yamakiri: Permanently banned from the network
[21:44] <Mark_Ryan> cimon: what
[21:44] <Yamakiri> oh, why?
[21:45] <Mark_Ryan> Yamakiri, something to do with spammers
[21:45] <Yamakiri> BUT I CLICKED BOTH
[21:45] * CWii (n=CWii@ool-45721bc3.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) )
[21:45] <Arwen> [21:44] <FastLizard4> Yamakiri: Permanently banned from the network <-- more like temp banned from one server until you dodge it
[21:45] <cimon> Mark_Ryan: This is the day on which Ulysses occurs (You know, James Joyce)
[21:45] * Kjoonlee (n=kjoonlee@121.157.95.60) Quit ("Leaving" )
[21:45] <FastLizard4> Arwen: heh
[21:45] <Mark_Ryan> cimon: no
[21:45] <Messedrocker> rory096, I have countered your support vote :P
[21:45] * Yamakiri is afraid
[21:46] <Arwen> also, we have auto-kline jupes?
[21:46] <Arwen> not even #gnaa is like that
[21:46] <cimon> Mark_Ryan: big thing in Dublin... There will be people re-enacting the whole book...
[21:46] <rory096> Messedrocker: orly?
[21:46] * Charitwo (n=Charitwo@wikia/pdpc.silver.Charitwo) has left #wikipedia
[21:46] <Messedrocker> Arwen, probably because there's a volume of people who go into #gnaa out of innocent curiosity
[21:46] <FastLizard4> Arwen: #freenode-raid I think is an autokline
[21:46] <FastLizard4> Although I wouldn't care to find out in case it is one :P
[21:46] * Dppowell (n=Dppowell@c-71-230-50-191.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit ("Leaving" )
[21:47] <Messedrocker> Arwen, I remember on an IRC network I ran, the channel "#" was auto-gline juped because it was the channel used by spambots
[21:47] * Bernstein229 (n=Marshall@71.167.122.196) has left #wikipedia
[21:47] <Arwen> indeed, I got terminated on Rizon for joining "#"
[21:47] <Gracenotes> and I am annoyed that "/join 0" doesn't work
[21:47] * Legoktm (n=Legoktm@adsl-216-103-85-154.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #wikipedia
[21:47] <Arwen> immediately bandodged of course
[21:47] * Legoktm (n=Legoktm@adsl-216-103-85-154.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Client Quit )
[21:47] <FastLizard4> Arwen: heh
[21:47] <Messedrocker> Gracenotes, it does work, but it clears your channel list
[21:47] <Gracenotes> Messedrocker: not on freenode
[21:47] <Gracenotes> you join #0
[21:47] <Messedrocker> oh
[21:47] <rory096> Messedrocker: i dont really see why that's necessary. using the tools on large projects that dont want the tools to be used on them gets you autodeglobalsysopped anyway
[21:48] <rory096> btw that's an awesome word right there
[21:48] <Gracenotes> so that's no fun
[21:48] <FastLizard4> yeah
[21:48] * Mark_Ryan (n=mark@wikipedia/Mark) Quit
[21:49] <rory096> wait
[21:49] <rory096> fuck me
[21:49] <rory096> dont tell me i'm disqualified from that voting
[21:49] * FastLizard4 is now known as FastLizard4|away
[21:50] <rory096> oh wait no
[21:50] <rory096> not even close
[21:50] <rory096> :o
[21:50] <Yamakiri> Why'd you be disqualified?
[21:50] <Yamakiri> I'm for support
[21:51] * Yamakiri has a headache
[21:51] <rory096> Yamakiri: wasnt sure i had enough edits this year through may 31, since i was on a sort of wikibreak until like may 25. i beat it by quite a bit, though
[21:52] * spoop (n=spoop@76.28.23.59) has joined #wikipedia
[21:52] * Cream (i=wat@unaffiliated/cream) Quit (Connection timed out )
[21:52] <Yamakiri> Oops, need to retract my vote
[21:53] <Messedrocker> why?
[21:53] <rory096> Yamakiri: you dont need to remove it entirely, you can just indent and strike it. your opinion still matters and whatnot
[21:53] <Messedrocker> why would it be redacted
[21:53] <Yamakiri> NVM
[21:53] * Ashfire908 (n=ahampe@wikipedia/Andrew-Hampe) has joined #Wikipedia
[21:53] <Yamakiri> I do! :)
[21:54] * Sceptre (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/sceptre) has joined #wikipedia
[21:54] <Messedrocker> you may now kiss the bride
[21:54] <Messedrocker> and by "bride" i mean rory
[21:54] * rory096 squints
[21:54] * rory096 backs away
[21:55] <rory096> Yamakiri: you meet the qualifications easily
[21:55] * SJP (n=chatzill@c-24-63-69-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]" )
[21:55] <Yamakiri> :)
[21:55] * Yamakiri blames his headache
[21:56] * Yamakiri gets asprin
[21:56] * Wahaya (n=erudites@wiktionary/neskaya) has joined #wikipedia
[21:56] <rory096> heh
[21:56] <Messedrocker> speaking of small wikis
[21:57] <Messedrocker> i once asked for an estimate for how much it would cost to translate the Akan Wikipedia's interface into Akan
[21:57] <Messedrocker> it was well over a thousand dollars :X
[21:58] * Wahaya is now known as Neskaya
[22:00] * Mm40 (n=chatzill@96.242.123.103) has joined #wikipedia
[22:02] <Yamakiri> That's rediculous!
Session Close: Sun Jun 15 22:05:16 2008


 
The source of this material had posted the more interesting bits to their own website, but was legally threatened by the Wikimedia Foundation, and took it all down.